Will the Canada Southern route be revived?

[Junctionfan]

I got word that CN has abandoned what was left of the CASO between St.Thomas and High Gate I believe. This means that pretty much all of that line is abandoned now.

I heard at one point, CSX and NS were exploring the possibility of purchasing the land to rebuild much of the CASO with some rerouting here and there for the purpose of intermodal shortcut between East Coast and Chicago and the few trains that run between New York State and Michigan.

Is there any more talk about this or any opinions on what might happen with it?

[Anonymous]

No.

The cost of doing busines in Canada and the cost of relaying this line, even if it could be done would not be justified. The CASO had precious little freight traffic when it existed and was primarily built as a high speed passenger route by the NYC. There is no need for such an additional route now as parallel routes still have plenty of capacity, albiet CSX is having some troubles managing the Water Level Route at the moment...

LC

[heavyd]

This is a great example of a once-mighty double track main line that is now withered away to almost nothing! I live in this area. The Caso is still intact between Windsor and Fargo, (south of Chatham). From Fargo to St. Thomas is actually the area CN is letting go. This stretch is in really bad shape. As for the remaining, CN has a couple of freights a day and you can see the odd NS train. I haven't heard anything about any other RR being interested. I thought it was too much trouble for US through trains to use this line because of delays due to crossing the border twice, using the Niagra/Erie bridge and Detroit River Tunnel. Too bad though, the caso is a really good bee-line between Buffalo and Detroit, mostly straight and flat with little cities or towns in the way, good for high speed.

[Anonymous]

It could part of a bike trail around Lake Erie as part of the great lakes circle tour

[Junctionfan]

Isn't all that intermodal checked by customs anyways? It isn't like it is stopping in Canada anyways. As long as it is guaranteed not to stop in Canada, why would there be problems at the boarder?

If it is that much of a problem, maybe it's because there needs to be an agreement with involved parties in order to get something happening. How else would bridges and tunnels connecting the two countries be built if it was that big of a problem?

I just don't buy that it is a big problem as much as unwilling to negotiate for an international agreement for it to happen. How else did NYC and the Wabash/NW operate lines in Ontario?

[heavyd]

Well, I know first hand that both the Government and RRs make simple things way harder than they need to be, so crossing the border just may be a tricky thing to pull off. I don't think it is a big problem but any delay reduces desirablity. The NYC had a definite advantage to use the CASO for Detroit-Buffalo trains years ago, but todays trains may not. I am not sure how Canadian labour would allow US crews to take trains across Ontario that far. I can't see American RRs setting up crew change locations within Canada with Canadian crews. Also, the Detroit River Tunnel has limited clearance. Double stack will fit, but they have to be the 8'6" containers, two 9'6" containers double stacked won't fit, I think that may be another snag.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it! Customs and border crossings may not be a huge issue, but it is another hurtle to overcome further reducing desirability.

[Junctionfan]

A new tunnel was supposed to be built in Windsor as the current rail tunnel which is not big enough to clear most containers stacked, was to be bought by the Governments of Michigan and/or Ontario. The Ontario Ministry of Transportation was to extend highway 401 to that tunnel and avoid conjesting the road toward Ambassador bridge.

This was exceptable to CP as the government was supposedly to help pay for the building of a new rail tunnel for CP and CN to use.

As far as crew changes go, if the trains go between 50 to 60mph, only allow crew changes in Buffalo and Detroit. It shouldn't be a problem as it should only take a few hours tops to get from one end to another. CSX runs into Canada anyways. They go into Ontario via the tunnel in Sarnia and head toward Chatham on their own line. They must have Canadian workers then. NS is another that operates at least 5 trains that I know of in Ontario.