Carrying Army Vehicles

[eastside]

On the news they showed M1 tanks being loaded onto flatcars for transportation to the East coast. They seemed to just fit, with only one tank per car, if I correctly recall. Are the design dimensions and weight of US Army vehicles pretty much dictated by the capacity of rail cars in the US? Let's say a tank weighs 60 tons. Do they require special cars in the US? Can European railrays handle them also?

[dharmon]

Vehicle designs are not neccessarily dictated by railcar capacity. There are many factors...they need to be airliftable, and fit inside the holds of tranport ships. The weight distribution needs to be such that they won't collapse roads or bridges, including the temp bridges the Engineers put up. Reality dictates that they need to be able to transit a street and bring its weapons to bear, shape of armor, profile and height add to survivability....So there are many factors involved, not just railcars. But that does figure in by default..If it's too wide to get on a railcar, it's probably too wide to be in an urban environment. European cars can handle tanks.

For moves, if I remember correctly, a 100 ton flat can take a single M1. The six wheel DODX flats can take two. Bradleys and M113s are much lighter and travel two per. Trucks and HUMVEEs will go by TTX or DODX 86' flats.

[Anonymous]

The M1 was designed primarily to replace the aging and obsolescent fleet of M60A3's. Primary design was on ability to kill then Soviet tanks, emphasizing speed, stability, ease of maintenance, and surviveability.

While the vehicle width had some considerations, vehicle height was emphasized- the lower the sillouhette, the harder it is to spot the tank.

Transporting the M1 has always been an afterthought. The Air Force, which has always hated those filthy ground pounders who want to dent their pretty airplanes, could only carry one (1) M1A1 on board their C5A's. The Naval Sealift Command went in big for so called RO/RO ships in response to... Soviet ships that were leading the way in transporting heavy military equipment.

The short answer? No- the function of an M1 is to kill other tanks before other tanks kill the M1. Form follows function.

Erik

[eastside]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eastside

Are the design dimensions and weight of US Army vehicles pretty much dictated by the capacity of rail cars in the US?

"Dictated" was to strong a word. I should have said an "important consideration" instead because it seems pretty senseless to design a tank that can't be carried on the rails.

BTW, I notice that Soviet tanks seem to be wider (visually at least) than US tanks. Is that because their broader rail gauge allows wider cars and thus wider tanks?

[tree68]

The M1A2 is 12 feet wide (per a non-gov't website I Googled). The Soviet T72 is 11.75 feet wide (again, a search). Wider gauge just means it doesn't hang over the edges of the car as far...

[greyhounds]

When the M1 was adopted the Dept of Defense acquired a fleet of 12 wheel heavy duty flatcars to carry the tanks around the the US. These purpose built railcars could each move two M1's at a time. I've got the original weight of the M1 at 120,000 pounds. They probably gained weight with ongoing improvements. For example the main gun was increased from 105 mm to 120 mm.

As was said, the M1 was adopted to defeat Soviet tank armies. These no longer exist. M1 Production stopped a long time ago.

The Army has the new "Stryker" (the M1 is the "Abrams") which is a lighter wheeled armored vehicle that is significantly easier to move around. It's not designed to stand up to Soviet tanks, but then it won't have to.

A design specification of the Stryker was that it go into a C-130. They've developed new brigades around the new vechicle. When it comes to the Army, "getting there" is definitely part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

The newer C17 Globemaster can also carry 1 M1 Tank...as long as the side skirt armor is detatched. A C141pilot i know laughs in disgust at the C17 though as it cant fly accross the US without in flight refueling 3 times with a M1 on board.

Ive also seen in the last few months where MR and RMC have done some excellent articles on milityary eq as flat loads.

[mudchicken]

The DODX 6-axle cars predate the M1A1.....USAF was using them long before the advent of the M1A1.....The groundpounders most likely want to kill the clown that surplussed so many of those 6-axle flats (they make excellent temporary bridges[:D])

I have seen plenty of two tank flats roaming the rails in Colorado, especially at Pinon Canyon Maneuver site south of Fort Carson.