Off topic: Acetone as diesel fuel additive

[Anonymous]

Found this article regarding the use of acetone as an additive to diesel fuel in a semi truck:

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Acetone:James_Arthur_Jancik%27s_Semi

The ratio of acetone to diesel was around 2 oz per 10 gallons. The author claims a mileage improvement of around 10%. At 2 oz per 10 gallons the cost of the acetone additive per gallon of diesel is around 4 or 5 cents.

The question then is this: Would this ratio result in the same mileage gains for a locomotive? If the railroads could get a 10% mileage increase for the same fuel expenditures, how much money could they save annually?

[locomutt]

Isn't acetone a solvent ?
Wouldn't that damage parts in the fuel line ?
Particularly the plastic,or rubber ones ?

That's what a lot of us use to remove 'super glue'
and a lot of ladys use to take 'nail polish' off.

[ericsp]

Just about any liquid can be used as a solvent (including water and diesel fuel). All hydrocarbons are compatible with some rubbers and plastic and incompatible with others (which ones they are compatible with depends on the particular liquid). I am very skeptical about the claim of so little acetone increasing efficiency so much.

[kevarc]

I would be VERY carefull about doint that. Acetone is more volitile than diesel,, therefore more dangerous. A couple of things:

As mentioned above, it is a solvent and will soften and dissolve some rubber and plastics. This would make me think twice. Reference to the acetone fumes in the article points to this as being a problem.

Also, with the increased volitility, what would be the addional wear on an engine?

What would be the different load charateristics of the two engines? This would make a difference.

In case of an accident - again the higher volatility of acetone comes into play.

I would need to see a lot more data before I would use it. 5 (?) trips does not create enough data to give reliable results. And such a short usage history, would not give enough data on maintainence and additional wear (if any).

[Overmod]

There are some better (though often still a bit weird in places) discussions of acetone as a diesel additive in places like

http://www.lubedev.com/smartgas/additive.htm

(Is 50 years a long enough usage history for ya, Kev? ;-})

Just for the record: a pretty good guide to diesel fuel 'technology' is here:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L1_toc_fs.htm

General consensus appears to be that the acetone acts as a dispersant in the fuel plume, which is why it would be effective at comparatively tiny percentage; the graphs I have seen show a fairly rapid falling off of 'mileage advantage' almost certainly due to the lousier performance of this extremely "high octane" material (equivalent about 150 octane) as a compression-ignited fuel.

The additional wear effects on the engine would be minimal at the given concentration, but I have seen indications that the co-administration of one of the esteric additives, such as dipentaerythritol hexalkanoate, at about half the concentration of acetone, would eliminate any problem (and further increase engine performance).

I would expect that higher dispersion of the fuel plume would lead to more complete compression-ignited (polyfocal) combustion, and therefore give less deposition on cylinder walls to induce lubricant wash and higher piston wear, etc.

Solvent action in many parts of diesel injection systems is a desirable thing. We might have Randy Stahl or jruppert weigh in on which (if any) parts of locomotive diesel injection systems are susceptible to acetone-induced damage. I would think that the effect on lubricosity would be minimal -- certainly addressed by the additives mentioned above, or perhaps in one of the commercial additive packages from people like Stanadyne or Racor...

I find it interesting that part of the Jancik reference indicated 'acetone fumes', while one of the other references stated that acetone in the proper proportions mixes completely with the diesel fuel and won't preferentially evaporate (or fractionally distill off in the tank) -- I find the second scenario far more likely.

Back on direct topic: I would think that a direct fuel comparison would be, if anything, easier on locomotives than on trucks or automobiles -- I'd think you could get a direct apples-to-apples comparison, for example, by loadboxing at different runs. Cost for the supposed "best" mixture for 2000 gallons of fuel would be, what, three gallons of acetone from Wal-Mart or Home Depot?

[passengerfan]

Truck drivers also use to add ATF (Automatic Transmission Fluid) to Diesel Fuel for cleaner Burning and improved mileage. As I recall they only used the red ATF and the ratio was one quart per 50 gallons. I know for a fact the engine burned cleaner particularly in Detroits. A clean stack in California was the result so worth it prevented tickets. I really can't say I noticed an increase in Fuel mileage but the clean burning made it worthwhile.

[kevarc]

Overmod, interesting article, but one I would not say is unbiased. Right off you can tell he has an axe to grind. I would think that this calls for more study. I'll have to dig around and see what I can find.

[Junctionfan]

What is the difference between using an ethanol hybrid and an acetone hybrid?

What kind of emissions does combusting acetone yield?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

What is the difference between using an ethanol hybrid and an acetone hybrid?

What kind of emissions does combusting acetone yield?

Andrew,

Here's another link that explains the alleged ability of acetone to increase full combustion of gasoline:

http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/

As you can see, acetone isn't used as a fuel so much as an additive to improve gas mileage. I don't think there are any advantages to using acetone as a primary fuel, as it is more expensive per gallon than gasoline or ethanol. As a ketone, it lacks an oxygen molecule in comparison to alcohols, so it doesn't have the necessary oxygenate to improve combustion or emissions. But it does seem to have promise as an additive, due in no small part to its miscibility properties.

[Anonymous]

Octane does not matter in desiel. In fact too much power too fast will ruin the engine.

We had a company driver pour gasoline into his fuel years ago, hopped into his R model mack took off out of town and we all heard the faint "Boom" as the engine blew up just short of town limits.

$20,000 lost. For that incident.

In today's age of foumulated fuels and heated fuel systems I found it very very rare that we ever added anything to it. In fact, I can think of damage happening to the various gaskets in the fuel system.

Regarding a earlier poster about california smoke, I seriously contemplated doing that but was told in no uncertain terms to lay off the throttle whenever the bear was about. I eased my way to and from california without making too much smoke.

The fuel mileage savings are dubious. 3 days in the plains gives GREAT mileage with the right wind. Then you hit either side of the USA with frame busting grades.

You want fuel mileage? If I was the owner of any number of trucks, they ALL will have gensets that will provide heat, air and house voltage for little as 2 gallons a night instead of running that giat 460 detroit to drive a 3 pound a/c compressor.

Gensets and Shore power is the way to go for fuel savings.

The only additive I ever really used was alchole for the wipers (Back in the day when they were air driven) and perhaps the air brake system only if they fail to function in very cold weather. Failing that, I consign my soul to god and get under neath the darn thing chocks and all with a ball peen hammer and beat the brakes loose.

I have taken the position that 45-50 cetane fuel properly formulated for the winter or summer season with on-board fuel heating systems and a genset is the best way to go on today's rigs.

[Junctionfan]

They don't mention any environmental impact of this new combustable. That concerns me.

[edbenton]

High iron I have to agree with you. My last truck I drove had a genset on it boss was tring them to see if they wereworth the cost. My feul milage went up from 6.2 mpg to 7 mpg and that was at full gross loads. Needless to say the boss was putting them on as fast as he could after the test made it nice had AC power without and inverter in the truck.