Question about Rare American Diesel Cab Unit.

[AntonioFP45]

Hey Guys,

I remember back in the 70s seeing in TRAINS magazine a beautiful Delaware & Hudson Baldwin Shark that was restored and running. It was an RF-16. (The six axle version was called a BP-20---Pennsy had them)

Is it still in existence? [8)]

[METRO]

I've heard rumors of this unit from friends in upstate NY and Ontario, lol it sounds kind of like the holy-grail of railfaning to me.

There probably is some merrit to it though, I remember the rumors around the Mexican PA-1s and the CP C-liners, and both of those turned out to be true so maybe the shark is still out there somewhere.

As for me, I intend to hunt down and photograph some of the last remaining Alco RS units this summer, so if you've got anything on those pass it along.

I'll ask my buddies in the east if they've got any leads for you as well.

~METRO

[AlcoRS11Nut]

QUOTE: Originally posted by METRO

I've heard rumors of this unit from friends in upstate NY and Ontario, lol it sounds kind of like the holy-grail of railfaning to me.

There probably is some merrit to it though, I remember the rumors around the Mexican PA-1s and the CP C-liners, and both of those turned out to be true so maybe the shark is still out there somewhere.

As for me, I intend to hunt down and photograph some of the last remaining Alco RS units this summer, so if you've got anything on those pass it along.

I'll ask my buddies in the east if they've got any leads for you as well.

~METRO

Let me know too please...if any are in Wisconsin or surrounding states.
Thanks

[Overmod]

Both RF16 cabs are stored under cover in Michigan. They aren't in good running condition, but are in no danger of being scrapped. I believe there are threads in the forum archives about this. If I remember correctly, these units were repowered with 12-251s in their D&H years which would make them more reliable as fan-trip power; the problem with restoring them for other service is that the view to the rear (and IIRC access to the cab and through the carbody) is even worse than in EMD cab units, which makes them decidedly inferior and less safe for switching and shortline operations -- running 'em back-to-back is no solution (think of the walk and/or climb!)

It's possible that the converted Shark B-unit from the Sullivan Trail Breaker in northeast Pennsylvania is still in existence somewhere -- don't know where it went when that site was cleaned up in the 1990s, but it was known to the railfan community that it was available for sale before the cleanup took place. I saw this unit in the early '70s and I think (for Baldwin fans at least) IT is the "Holy Grail", more so than the RF16s...

[oltmannd]

Overmod-

The PAs got 12-251s when they went to MK for rebuilding in 1974/75. The Sharks still have their Baldwin burblers in'em.

The other handicap the RF16s had was that they wouldn't MU with other locos.

[M636C]

Antonio

There were two of these units, ex NYC 1205 and 1216. They had been running with the Monongahela railroad and were purchased by Delaware and Hudson and painted in the adapted blue D&H "warbonnet" scheme. I believe that both of these (or at least one)still exist(s), privately owned and in storage. They haven't run in many years. Don't know where, sadly!

Peter

[CShaveRR]

As Overmod said, they're in Michigan--Escanaba, to be precise--and, as is everything else on the property of the Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad, vehemently off-limits to railfans. They have their reasons (vandalism, theft), and, sadly, one has to agree with them.

[Overmod]

CShaveRR -- I thought they were still in Wells. Not so?

Don -- shows you what tricks memory (or lack of it!) can pull. I did know about the "PA4" conversions, but for some reason I remembered they'd put 251s in the Sharks as well. (Personally, I'm glad to know the 608s are still there!)

[espeefoamer]

If the Sharks had been repowered with 251s,they most likely would have modified the MU system to operate with other locomotives.

[METRO]

AlcoRS11Nut, I can tell you for sure that there are none in Wisconsin. If there were, I'd have my camera all over em lol.

In fact, I don't believe there ever were any sharks in Wisconsin to begin with, may be wrong on that one, but there are still some rare units here in WI.

~METRO

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

As Overmod said, they're in Michigan--Escanaba, to be precise--and, as is everything else on the property of the Escanaba & Lake Superior Railroad, vehemently off-limits to railfans. They have their reasons (vandalism, theft), and, sadly, one has to agree with them.

[V] Wow, here I am in Madison, WI for the night on business and ONLY about a six hour drive from Escanaba. If I had more time and my camera I would trek up there to see the Sharks, but no can do...sorry...anyway I would likely get sidetracked (no punn intended) at Stevens Point or Green Bay on my way there so it would take me longer than the six hours and I need to be here at 9 a.m. Wed. morning. Sorry folks!

[AntonioFP45]

Guys,

You're top notch! Thanks very much! Interesting that these were originally New York Central locomotives.

I wonder why the E&LS Railroad is hanging on to them? Most railroads have efficiency in mind when it comes to locomotive ownership. I'm suprised that these units haven't been sold to a museum, like the one in Tennesse for example, the one that was running the NYC painted E-units.

Again, thanks for the news! It's nice to read something "Positive" for a change regarding very rare locomotives.

For those of you that apprecite the Sharks, go to www.railpictures.net
Just go to the blank Key Word search box towards the bottom. Type in Baldwin Shark and then click on "Find the Photos". A page will open up with some very sharp photos taken in 1975. The old girls look beautiful in the D&H scheme! Enjoy!

[kenneo]

The irony of it is, the RF-16 was nicknamed "Hauling Fool" and would work circles around an F7.

Perhaps that RF16 B is still around. Somehow, I have my doubts.

The two on the ELS are both A units

[Overmod]

The B unit in question isn't an RF16, it's a bit older: DR-4-4-1500B. My sources indicate it was built in 1949 as #74157, originally carried road number 9583B, and was renumbered to 9632B -- apparently it was one of the Baldwins that was given an Alco engine sometime in the mid-'50s.

It is possible that the unit is at M-K Recycling (in the Hazleton area) as they did some major scrap reclamation projects for Jeddo-Highland about the time the Sullivan Trail Breaker site was "remediated". Anyone in that area is encouraged to find out... legally, of course... whether the unit's carbody is still there. The piece of information I find somewhat encouraging is that a Jeddo-Highland employee apparently told a railfan that the unit was "for sale" some time before the remediation was done, which might indicate some perceived value other than as scrap.

[Anonymous]

I have a co-worker friend whose parents live in Escanaba, and he visits them every so often.
According to him, the Sharks are stored in an old warehouse in Escanaba served by the E&LS. There is no public access, and the grounds are patrolled by security guards. He has tried to get close enough for pics, but has been run off and checked by the guards every time, and threatened with trespassing charges. They now have his license number and I.D., and will jail him in the future on those charges if he continues to show up on the property.[:(!]

IIRC, one of the Sharks is inoperable, due to a spun bearing when being fired up for use by E&LS in the early 80's.

[martin.knoepfel]

Some month ago, I asked "Trains Magazine" whether any "sharks" existed.

The answer was that there are two "baby sharks" surviving, but no "big sharks". They are both off-limits to the public.

There is a book "Locomotives from Eddystone". It mentions that only two 4-axle-shark A-units have not been scrapped.

Perhaps the "Sharks" do not belong to E&LS. If somebody else pays E&LS a fee to store them under a roof, it makes sense for E&LS to keep them.

[AntonioFP45]

Interesting opportunity here.

Bergie, if you're reading this........Has TRAINS MAGAZINE attempted to gain access to the sharks?????? Perhaps talk to the owners about them? Future plans?

Seems like if anyone would have a chance it would be Kalmbach personnel.

Is Kalmbach willing to try?

[GMS-AU]

I'm half a world away but I recall reading the B unit may still be around minus bogies and residing in a scrap yard. The engine may be still a goer and been used as a gen set.

GMS

[Overmod]

Here's an archived report that discusses some of the B-unit details:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/aott3_1.html

Some pictures of the unit are here:

http://nepa.railfan.net/pshark.html

My records (http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/BaldwinSharks.html) indicate that only one of the DR-4-4-1500B's was Alco re-engined (after a wreck) -- the fact that it had a 'cheap' 251-engined genset would, I think, easily account for its being selected for the coal company's experiment in "hotel power"!