Your Opinion: How long will the new EMD stay in business?

[GP40-2]

Now that the sale of EMD looks like it really is a done deal, how long do you think they will last on their own?

Personally, I give them 5 years before GE (who made nearly $17 Billion in profits last year) runs them out of business, or the new owners claim they are not getting enough return for their investors and start dismembering the company.

What do you think?

[greyhounds]

I don't know.

GM had another division really in the crapper, Detroit Diesel. Detroit Diesel makes heavy duty truck engines - and the ones they made in the late 80's sucked.

GM unloaded DD to an outfit headed by Roger Pentzski (SP?) - a former race car guy. He got it turned around and DD has survived. And this was in compitition with Caterpillar and***mins. So it can be done.

Conversly, International Harvester sold off its money loosing steel manufacturing unit, Wisconsin Steel, to an outfit called "Envirodine". Envirodine lasted about a day and a half. So it can fail.

It's all going to depend on the people running the company. If they're good and know what they're doing they can make it work.

If GE was a dog it would win "Best In Show" year after year after year. They know what they're doing, from locomotives to jet engines to developing their managers. But they're not invincible.

One thing for sure, the buyers of EMD didn't put their money in this because they think it will fail.

[greyhounds]

The tyrany will not cease!

There is a manufacturer of diesel engines for trucks headquartered in Columbus, Indiana. The name of this firm is***mins.

But if I type in 'C' 'U' 'M' 'M' 'I' 'N' 'S' it comes out***mins.

They make diesel engines in Indiana. And I can't write their name. I'm going to bed now.

[PNWRMNM]

I think they are in it for the long haul. I suspect they paid a relatively low price which means their financian overhead will be low. Will be there decades in my opinion.

Mac

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GP40-2

Now that the sale of EMD looks like it really is a done deal, how long do you think they will last on their own?

Personally, I give them 5 years before GE (who made nearly $17 Billion in profits last year) runs them out of business, or the new owners claim they are not getting enough return for their investors and start dismembering the company.

What do you think?

Why are you so sure it will fail?

[Anonymous]

The only reason most railroads buy at least some emds was to please gm who for csx at least is the largest customer. all the new 70 macs and ace's are weird jump up and down the ge's that csx ns bnsf and up get are much much better locomotives to handle than any of the newer emds 70 seires up now the older 60's and 50's and some 40's are pretty good when they run

[DRBusse]

Don't make the mistake of judging Electro-Motive simply on the basis of the locomotive business.

EMD is still a commanding presence in marine propulsion and stationary power applications. EMD 567s and 645s are the most common powerplants in tugboats and inland river pushboats, with Cat and other non-railroad players not far behind. One veteran marine engineer told me the EMD 710 may be the best engine ever produced at LaGrange for hard-working inland pushboat service. GE is not even a blip on the radar in this application. There are many more Alco 251s in US-flagged tugs and pushboats than GE FDM's (the marine version of GE's FDL-series locomotive engine).

Visit any big offshore oil rig and you'll probably find 645s humming away in powerplant service; the electric motors pushing tools on the rig itself are probably any variety of reliable EMD locomotive traction motors. The lights are on in places like Seward, Alaska and Avalon, Calif., because of EMD 645-powered stationary generators; the lights won't even flicker at the Long Beach Convention Center in California if commercial power is lost; a 645 stands at the ready in the basement to kick-in when Edison fails. And so on...

What about passenger locomotives and the competition from Boise? Um, those are not GE products under the hood or hanging between the truck frames of those new passenger locomotives...

EMD was hammered by aggressive competition in the locomotive business and hamstrung by the corporate culture of General Motors. They know automobiles and have a hard time exploiting businesses that are not directly involved with the manufacture of cars.

There's smart money riding on the EMD sale. My guess is the next 3-4 years will be interesting times as new blood takes the helm.

[spbed]

As long as they keep making loco's that the RRs will buy[:D]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GP40-2

Now that the sale of EMD looks like it really is a done deal, how long do you think they will last on their own?

Personally, I give them 5 years before GE (who made nearly $17 Billion in profits last year) runs them out of business, or the new owners claim they are not getting enough return for their investors and start dismembering the company.

What do you think?

[coborn35]

You have to realize that GE (which DOES stand for General Electric) also manufactures solar power sources, wind electric power sources, and numerous other items important to the U.S. Although their locomotive division could go under (because I feel that EMD is stronger in that catagory) they will undoubtedly never go under.

[edbenton]

I used to work for GE in one of there many divisons and the shear power of that company if firghting they could make an insurance company give in to them. My second year there our insurance company for health wanted to raise premuims i think it was 25%. Our divison was based in MN and corparte went to the insurance company and said either you keep premiums the same or we are going to cancel our contarct and find another carrier. Needless to say our premiums dropped 10% after GE Corparate was trough with them just to keep s as a customer.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

The tyrany will not cease!

There is a manufacturer of diesel engines for trucks headquartered in Columbus, Indiana. The name of this firm is***mins.

But if I type in 'C' 'U' 'M' 'M' 'I' 'N' 'S' it comes out***mins.

They make diesel engines in Indiana. And I can't write their name. I'm going to bed now.

Let me try.

Straight from Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary:

cumber
cumbersome
cumbrous
cumin
cummerbund

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

The tyrany will not cease!

There is a manufacturer of diesel engines for trucks headquartered in Columbus, Indiana. The name of this firm is***mins.

But if I type in 'C' 'U' 'M' 'M' 'I' 'N' 'S' it comes out***mins.

They make diesel engines in Indiana. And I can't write their name. I'm going to bed now.

Let me try.

Straight from Webster's Seventh New Collegiate Dictionary:

cumber
cumbersome
cumbrous
cumin
cummerbund

Don't know what to tell you greyhouds. You must be working out of a public library!

[BigJim]

If GE was a dog it would win "Best In Show" year after year after year. They know what they're doing

Boy has GE got you buffaloed. The new engines are even worse than the Dash-9s!!!

[BigJim]

My thanks go out to EMD for finally finding somebody with enough GOOD sense to put the dynamic brake way out on the long hood end.

Those D/Bs next to the cab was undoubtedbly THE STUPIDEST thing the design engineers have ever done.

[BaltACD]

EMD will remain in the business as long as GE.

The railroads don't want to be held hostage by a single supplier. While each carrier may favor one manufacturer or the other, they will throw enough business the non-favored manufacturers way to keep them interested and in business.

The only caveat is that if the new EMD builds such an intolerably miserable excuse for a locomotive that it won't stay running between A & B on a consistant basis....let alone between A & Z continually for 92 days, then EMD will fail.

[andrewjonathon]

Well said, it is in the railroads self interest to keep both companies in business if only to compete against each, just as the airlines would never want either Boeing or Airbus to go out of business. Although, GE is sells more locomotives in the North American market who is the bigger builder worldwide? It seems I read more often read about EMD selling locomotives overseas than GE.

[daveklepper]

I think EMD is going to produce excellent and innovative locomotives and may even draw even with GM in the locomotive business. They have a real backlog of ideas and talent that have not been allowed to perolate under the GM umbrella.

[K. P. Harrier]

I have the impression the new owners will succeed. In my opinion, democracy as we know it depends of it. How is THAT for a statement?

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

The tyrany will not cease!

There is a manufacturer of diesel engines for trucks headquartered in Columbus, Indiana. The name of this firm is***mins.

But if I type in 'C' 'U' 'M' 'M' 'I' 'N' 'S' it comes out***mins.

They make diesel engines in Indiana. And I can't write their name. I'm going to bed now.

Yes I noticed this when I typed "C" "U" "M" "M" "I" "N" "S" before it came out***mins this was interesting to me I wonder has the "C" "U" "M" "M" "I" "N" "S" gotten any ridiqule from it's name I'm sure Chessie "C" "U" "M" "M" "I" "N" "S"
( the founder of the company) must of gotten teased for his name. LOL

Anyway, I beleive EMD can and will survive. Remember for a while during the time of the dieselization process EMD was in the lead ahead of GE, then GE took the lead because of a cost effective product. But, I don't think the new owners of EMD will allow it to crumble. EMD has built excellent locomotives and many railroads still purchase from them. With the technology EMD has espually their Radial Truck technology which is far more superior than GE's radial technology EMD will always be there. However I do wish GM didn't sell EMD. They should be shot for that.

[espeefoamer]

As long as EMD continues to produce quality products, they will stay in business.If they start putting out crap,they will fail.This is why ALCo,Baldwin,and FM are no longer around.
Cummins.There! I did it[;)]!(And at a public library,too[:p]!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I think that EMD was purchased as an ongoing business for most of the reasons cited above. I think that it will be able to continue in business since it is now a stand-alone company out from under the GM umbrella, similar to Penske Detroit Diesel. EMD does have good people working for it, and the new ownership is probably more willing to spend money on R&D than GM was. Time will tell.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigJim

My thanks go out to EMD for finally finding somebody with enough GOOD sense to put the dynamic brake way out on the long hood end.

Those D/Bs next to the cab was undoubtedbly THE STUPIDEST thing the design engineers have ever done.

REALLY stupid was when they were over the exhaust manifold, particularaly pre-Dash 2.

[tree68]

A lot will depend on whether the new owners were buying (from their perspective) a cash cow to be milked until dry, or an established business with the ability to provide long term returns. As MWH has said many times (including in the latest issue of TRAINS), a company exists to please its stockholders. Only time will tell.

[Anonymous]

I doubt the new owners will be involved much longer than it takes to resell it and make a profit... Because that's what they do. Who the real new owner will be for the long haul could be anybody. But I doubt they're going anywhere. There's too much at stake in the railroad business to allow only one major manufacturer. Two major roads have recently made fairly large orders, and they wouldn't have done that if they thought the company was in jeopardy.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Home of the TrainTenna RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[CopCarSS]

I'm not sure what's up with the***min's deal, but one cannot type***bres and Toltec Scenic Railroad, either. At least not to the point that I can decipher.

[Anonymous]

as long as money is put into research and not into pockets of management good chance of them being sucessful. With strong traffic gains there is good opportunities for growth. [:)]

[AlcoRS11Nut]

Hopefully........NEVER. Actually, I don't want to think about it..