Amtrak ticket prices and productivity

[oltmannd]

I used to ride Amtrak from Phila to Albany NY in my college days (1974-1978). The one way fare from Phila to NY was 5.75. From NY to Alb it was 7.25, so, a whole "peak" round trip cost me $26 ($27 if you throw in the NYC TA subway fare from NYP to GCT). If I really wanted to go all out, I could pay an extra $1 and ride the Metroliner, too.

Checking Amtrak's web site, now the best I can do for that round trip is $152, but for the times I usually would ride, it is $181.

That's an 6-7 fold increase! Inflation over that period is something like 3.5x, so my 1976 ticket, adjusted for inflation would be something like $90.

So, why is this? Lack of productivity gains by Amtrak? Is there just not much to be had with something mature like RR passenger svc? Or, does Amtrak just not have the incentive to try?

Over the same time period, the frt RRs have acutally lowered rates and increased profits thru productivity gains and application of technology.

So, you're running Amtrak now, and you want to increase productivity. What would you do?

[Anonymous]

I also have records of years' worth of trips, by Metroliner and by regular train, of trips between Philadelphia and NYC. There has been inflation, of course, and I am also richer than I used to be. But that trip has gone from easily affordable to steep to out of my price range. If I make the trip alone, taking the train, even the cheapest Amtrak, is certainly no less expensive than driving, even including tolls on the New Jersey Turnpike AND parking in NYC. And if I'm going with another person who would have to pay an Amtrak fare, chartering a jet looks good.

[Anonymous]

Just an observation/question. Perhaps what you are noticing is a result of lower and lower subsidies, as every administration since Nixon has been trying to press Amtrak toturn a profit.

[Anonymous]

Oh, I don't doubt that in the Northeast Corridor, at least, it is a reflection of charging as much as the traffic will allow. The trains - well, at least back when I could affrord to ride the trains - appear to run full at the prices they charge.
Philadelphia-NYC is a particularly good route for Amtrak. They are 90 miles apart. The driving is miserable and expensive, and the route is so short that flying rarely makes sense.
But it is truly amazing how expensive the rail trip has become.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jwieczorek

Just an observation/question. Perhaps what you are noticing is a result of lower and lower subsidies, as every administration since Nixon has been trying to press Amtrak toturn a profit.

I don't think so. I seem to recall that the subsidy in 1972 was less than $200M. Now it's over $1B.

It was a pretty good deal to ride the train once the Amfleet cars and Turboliners went into service. Nice, new equipment, smooth ride (well, at least on the NEC and north of Poughkeepsie), and fast.

[DSchmitt]

And the $181 is the subsidized price, not the real cost for that route and time, which might be substantially higher.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

And the $181 is the subsidized price, not the real cost for that route and time, which might be substantially higher.

Absolutely! But, the real subsidy might not be all that high on those routes. In fact, it might actually be less on NY-Albany now than it was then. Ridership is several times higher now. Back then it was 5x a day, 2-4 60 seat coaches and an E8 (with change to FL9 at Harmon).

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

And the $181 is the subsidized price, not the real cost for that route and time, which might be substantially higher.

Absolutely! But, the real subsidy might not be all that high on those routes. In fact, it might actually be less on NY-Albany now than it was then. Ridership is several times higher now. Back then it was 5x a day, 2-4 60 seat coaches and an E8 (with change to FL9 at Harmon).

Correct

[kenneo]

This is just something out of my memory, and I doubt it is correct, but what I remember is that the NorthEast routes, all told, just break even or only a tiny profit. The balance of the subsidy payment goes to long distance service.

So, if we are to follow the Minneta Plan, bust up Amtrack, cancel everything outside of the NEC that is not supported by the various states budgets, Amtrack will get 1.2 B$ and then can reduce the fares back to what they used to be.

Oregon and Washington do support the Cascade Service and the Prime High Price for Portland to Seattle is $38 - a longer distance than Philly-NYC. And if you're not riding on a Mariners Baseball day or Seahawks Football weekend, the prices are usually much lower. On those sports days, #500 and #509 operate SRO - and even have been reported to operate in sections!