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[quote user="Saturnalia"]Granted, but a key thing about climate change theorists is that they generally use models rather than experiments and observation. [/quote] Climate models didn't fall from the sky. They were developed over tenth of years from available data. They are checked steadily against the known climate data line especially the best known last 125+ years. And they are not accurate but it the best we have. I wrote it before, all climate models were used to simulate the last 125 years without manmade influences. Only when they included the latter it worked. [quote user="Saturnalia"]My point is that yes there is a significant amount of support for the theory of climate change, but there's a difference between science fact and science theory.[/quote] Sure there is a difference. But in this case mankind might never see proof without reasonable doubt. Only ever better evidence. When I look at the potential consequences I think it is time to act. And you are right CO2 is not the only manmade influence on global warming. [quote user="Saturnalia"]The problem now, is that the developed world has reached the end of what can easily be cleaned up. As with the Clean Power Plan, futher cuts are generally limited by the intersection of new technology and costs, for small gains in pollution. Europe, Canada and the US have pretty much reached the end of point-source pollution controls, in terms of the gains they can net us. [/quote] I think we are not at the end. We can reduce CO2 polution further but perhaps with economical compromises. Denmark is currently at 59% renewables in power generation. Germany is behind with 30% but both countries aim for 100%. Back-ups for sunless dead calm days is necessary as long as there are noth enough storage plants. And that is lignite coal currenly here, the dirtiest way to do it. It should be gas power plants. So there is a lot that can be done. [quote user="Saturnalia"]Anyways, sorry for being incredibly long-winded, but in terms of this debate, yes it is politcal, and yes we all fall into it, because it is unavoidable. It's governence, and people fight about that stuff. [/quote] In principle the climate change debate is a science debate. It got a political debate because governments took the lead in the necessary actions. The difference between Europe and the USA is that in Europe it is supported by all large, relevant camps. Regards, Volker
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