On a FB group that I participate in, some members are advocating that the state fund a passenger line between the lower state and Traverse City area. This is currently owned by the Great Lakes Central and is Class 2 track. In percentages, how much more expensive (generall) is it to keep track maintained to Class 4 standards versus Class 2?
You're asking a terribly loaded question.
First, you are raising the speed from 30mph to 80mph.
Second, since you went from TWC dark to ABS/CTC signalled. (above 49mph)
Third, welcome to PTC...
Fourth, any jointed rail up there is probably old and tired.....You gonna try and run passenger on jointed rail? (I had the repeating nightmare of running #3 and #4 on some of the last 131/132 main track rail laid by Santa Fe ...losing battle, especially in this day and financial reality)
Fifth, what is the restrictive geometry you're stuck with and how much can you change it? (Same goes for what mother nature will allow.)
As far as I'm concerned, your passenger proponents are, as usual, nucking futs. Even if you got things up to a baseline normal, I'd guess (shotgun) that the normal operating maintenance costs will be 4-6 times greater than what the shortline is dealing with on just the track (no signal) side...Don't think your shiny toys folks have a grasp on reality and think spending OPM with a really poor ROI is no big deal. The costs are driven by what you have to live with and reality is you will never get it to the comfort level you want.
Putting a number figure on long term costs would take a lot of study by qualified people and that would still result in a number that is a WAG. (Transportation planning is an oxymoronic thing done by people that generally are unqualified)
Thanks! I riled some foamers up!
BackshopIn percentages, how much more expensive (general) is it to keep track maintained to Class 4 standards versus Class 2?
I do not know if the subgrade and drainage would support the necessary rebuilding. Unless the 'State' agency in question wants to fund full trackwork crews stationed every 12 miles or so constantly monitoring the state of the rail and lining, surfacing, relieving expansion or contraction, building up low joints, etc. -- your "cost" is going to involve renting a TLM and re-laying either end-to-end or using field-welded track panels. That involves fixing the subgrade and all the drainage while a given section of track is being replaced.
Then you would either purchase and maintain the necessary track-maintenance equipment, or secure at least two long-term contract sources for that maintenance. I suspect the cost of laser track-geometry monitoring may have come down (and you might be able to get a college engineering contest set up to build something cheap) but run it frequently and act on what it tells you.
States might have that kind of money accessible, but I would be very pessimistic that the need for All That Money would be justifiable to voters.
Note that a kinda-sorta intermediate method might be to go back to what D&H originally did in the Thirties: crop and field-weld the rails into ~1440-foot sticks and install rail anchors and the Pandrol fixation for wood ties. That might get you to speed if using light trains like Flirts...
Unless something has changed in the past few years that track is owned by the state (https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/-/media/Project/Websites/MDOT/Travel/Mobility/Rail/State-Owned-Rail/Michigan-State-Owned-Rail-Map.pdf?rev=2f011fc7219847e1b28d89d39993cf4a&hash=05816E0AA9290C46865E0987117AC522) In this case, that's good since raising track standards means raising property taxes for the railroad.
What's there could be brought up to speed as already noted. Keeping it that way is largely dependent on wear and tear. I don't see huge throngs traversing to and from Traverse City. As such maybe something like this could keep the wear down: https://revolutionvlr.com/ This will NOT meet the strength requirements of 49cfr238 but with proper lockout protection could possibly be allowed.
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There is little freight traffic on the north end of the Great Lakes Central since the Yuma sand mining operation shut down. The Traverse City branch seems almost devoid of traffic since the fruit canning operation shut down (rail bikes are running on the Grawn spur). Passenger travel to Traverse City is mainly summer and early fall weekends. Hardly sustainable for year-round passenger rail traffic.
Michigan rail map:
https://www.michigan.gov/-/media/Project/Websites/MDOT/Travel/Mobility/Rail/Michigan-Railroad-System-Map.pdf?rev=19120551f1024ecda5b0be93db04029a
Sometimes I think you've got to say uncle. The flexibility and comparatively low cost of a simple paved road is hard to beat
The Adirondack was rehabbed to Class 4 (60 MPH) with the intention to run it at 40 MPH, for the most part. It's all jointed rail, and makes no claim to be "high speed rail." Although it is one of the longest tourist operations in the country (116 miles, counting mileage on a shortline), it's still just a tourist operation.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
GrampSometimes I think you've got to say uncle. The flexibility and comparatively low cost of a simple paved road is hard to beat.
The flexibility and comparatively low cost of a simple paved road is hard to beat.
D.Carleton Gramp Sometimes I think you've got to say uncle. The flexibility and comparatively low cost of a simple paved road is hard to beat. An interstate grade highway is obscenely expensive compared to a railroad. But the highway may be accessed by all willing to pay the entrance fee and as such all pay for it: gas taxes, property taxes, registration fees, etc.
Gramp Sometimes I think you've got to say uncle. The flexibility and comparatively low cost of a simple paved road is hard to beat.
An interstate grade highway is obscenely expensive compared to a railroad. But the highway may be accessed by all willing to pay the entrance fee and as such all pay for it: gas taxes, property taxes, registration fees, etc.
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