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Green Mountain Strong: Repairing a Catastrophic Washout on the Vermont Rail System

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Green Mountain Strong: Repairing a Catastrophic Washout on the Vermont Rail System
Posted by Harrison on Monday, August 28, 2023 6:20 PM

https://youtu.be/uKB5Kaiw9ds?si=aPKmRIbr5fQfzIlt

I took a three-day trip across Vermont, and I found some incredible things to document. The washout repair in Ludlow excited me more than anything else, prompting the "special release" video.

Harrison

Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.

Modeling the D&H in 1978.

Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 28, 2023 11:12 PM

The loads being carried in the side dump cars is not ballast, it is generally called 'rip-rap' larger sized stone that can be up to 'boulder' size.  Rip-rap is generally used to build and/or increase the bank width on fills. 

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by MidlandMike on Tuesday, August 29, 2023 8:00 PM

I am skeptical that the replacement 36"(?) culvert at the bottom of the big washout will prevent the next washout.

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Posted by mudchicken on Wednesday, August 30, 2023 9:59 AM

A few of us on here wonder if a proper H&H study was done prior to replacing the pipe or was it another case slapping a band-aid on in an emergency and hoping it holds. (Did they even look at what was going on upstream and downstream?)

(was just in Northern Vermont in late July after the flooding and it was scary looking at all the highway culvert replacement going on as a result of the flooding and washouts)

Fortunately, this railroad owned or had access to air dumps. (long story, but these rascals are worth their weight in gold if the mechanical department keeps up with the abuse these cars must endure)

Agree with Balt. - The ballast hoppers with manual Miner/MK doors underneath are hauling 1 1/2" main track ballast and the airdumps (Difco or Magor) are hauling Rip-Rap (a mix with mostly the big stuff ... shortlines in western Kansas would kill for a ready supply of that)

The big CAT backhoe is pulling the rip rap off the doors so the doors can close and the piston drum air can exhaust in a confined work area. Normally the train would just pull forward to get the rip rap off the door and let the doors close normally. (no assistance from the CAT power backhoe needed)

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Fr.Al on Wednesday, August 30, 2023 12:15 PM

The predecessor line, the Rutland, was plagued with flooding. And, I believe, flooding finally did in the Lamoille County Line, in Northern Vermont.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 31, 2023 7:43 AM

The previous culvert probably dated back to the 1847 opening of the Rutland & Burlington.  The four foot culvert should be OK for flow even under heavy rain. The killer here was the upstream failure of one or more beaver dams, causing an extreme surge condition.  A lot also depends on the way the upstream side is laid out to funnel the flow.

The July storms had several pockets of extreme rainfall in what was otherwise a "normal" summer rainstorm.  Towns less than 20 miles away from Ludlow got ony a couple of inches, something most town road systems are built to handle.

The Ludlow washout was similar to the washout on the (then) Central Vermont in St. George, east of Burlington, in July 1983.  Seven inches of rain and a blown beaver dam later, the Montrealer found a large hole, causing one of the worst Vermont train wrecks in the 20th century.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 31, 2023 8:19 AM

rcdrye
The previous culvert probably dated back to the 1847 opening of the Rutland & Burlington.  The four foot culvert should be OK for flow even under heavy rain. The killer here was the upstream failure of one or more beaver dams, causing an extreme surge condition.  A lot also depends on the way the upstream side is laid out to funnel the flow.

The July storms had several pockets of extreme rainfall in what was otherwise a "normal" summer rainstorm.  Towns less than 20 miles away from Ludlow got ony a couple of inches, something most town road systems are built to handle.

The Ludlow washout was similar to the washout on the (then) Central Vermont in St. George, east of Burlington, in July 1983.  Seven inches of rain and a blown beaver dam later, the Montrealer found a large hole, causing one of the worst Vermont train wrecks in the 20th century.

Everybody wants to blame beavers.

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Posted by rcdrye on Thursday, August 31, 2023 9:37 AM

BaltACD

 Everybody wants to blame beavers. 

In this case, it was actually true.  Vermont and New Hampshire have seen a resurgence of the beaver population in the last couple of decades.  Quote from a town road agent on how hard beavers are to control:  "You don't want to shoot them.  If you do, all of their relatives show up for the funeral and just stay."

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 31, 2023 11:22 AM

BaltACD
Everybody wants to blame beavers.

We have someone on retainer...

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 31, 2023 3:39 PM

tree68
 
BaltACD
Everybody wants to blame beavers. 

We have someone on retainer...

Next thing you know they will be fighting Buc-ee's

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, August 31, 2023 7:18 PM

Beavers do a lot of important things for the environment and mankind. Post10 on YouTube for instance goes into some great depth in some of his videos explaining many of the benefits that they provide.

But hopefully if there's real problems interfering with humans that can't be easily mitigated in the face of persistent beavers, the decision makers have the sense to trap them and relocate them instead of indiscriminately killing them just for being beavers and doing beaver things...

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, August 31, 2023 8:13 PM

Leo_Ames
Beavers do a lot of important things for the environment and mankind.

The problem for the railroad is that the varmints are opportunists.  Why build an entire dam when they can just plug up a culvert?

There are ways of constructing culverts that discourage said damming.  I'm no expert on them, and figure that some culverts might not lend themselves to such contraptions.

Up on Tug Hill, the beaver meadows (drained beaver ponds) were a great source of hay.

According to NYS DEC, it takes about 100 years for the last trees to die off and fall once a new area is flooded.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by MidlandMike on Thursday, August 31, 2023 8:26 PM

The problem with culverts is that in a flood, tree limbs and other debris plug up the pipes causing water build-up.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 31, 2023 9:01 PM

tree68
 
Leo_Ames
Beavers do a lot of important things for the environment and mankind. 

The problem for the railroad is that the varmints are opportunists.  Why build an entire dam when they can just plug up a culvert?

There are ways of constructing culverts that discourage said damming.  I'm no expert on them, and figure that some culverts might not lend themselves to such contraptions.

Up on Tug Hill, the beaver meadows (drained beaver ponds) were a great source of hay.

According to NYS DEC, it takes about 100 years for the last trees to die off and fall once a new area is flooded.

I drive past Beaver Dams, NY located off NY 414 when I drive up to Watkins Glen to go racing.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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