Perhaps most interesting is that the locomotives in question in fact received a safety inspection before movement was started. Looks like somebody will be getting a little vacation time?
https://apnews.com/article/train-derailment-ohio-alabama-norfolk-southern-166dd9776537e93e1715a619d17374d7
As noted, they were "dead in tow," essentially boxcars.
As the old saw goes, "if you don't know what you're looking for, you won't know when you've found it."
The car department should have picked up on the problem before the railroad accepted the locomotives.
I haven't seen any info on what those locomotives were. I suspect they are "vintage," as the lateral motion thing has been around for a number of years.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23LR008.aspx
The details.
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47301
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Interesting that the DIT/waybill locos had been handled by several other railroads prior to this incident, apparently with no problems.
tree68Interesting that the DIT/waybill locos had been handled by several other railroads prior to this incident, apparently with no problems.
Different sized trains - different territories operated - different buff forces encountered. Finally there were sufficient buff forces to initiate the derailment.
Wonder if the old modified EMD's had welded wedges to the drawbar guides to reduce the coupler swing and those got cut off somehow. (not uncommon to see switching operations cut those triangular wedges off because they are working trackage with really sharp curves (say 10-15 degrees) and the rail was trying to roll over because of the restricted couplers? ...somebody forgot to weld the restrictive wedges back onto the coupler pocket?)
The wedges would reduce "coupler throw" from something like 24-26 inches down to less than 12. (New locos, like say recent GE's or Amthrax units cut that distance down even further to 6-8 inches.
BaltACD tree68 Interesting that the DIT/waybill locos had been handled by several other railroads prior to this incident, apparently with no problems. Different sized trains - different territories operated - different buff forces encountered. Finally there were sufficient buff forces to initiate the derailment.
tree68 Interesting that the DIT/waybill locos had been handled by several other railroads prior to this incident, apparently with no problems.
Convicted One Perhaps most interesting is that the locomotives in question in fact received a safety inspection before movement was started. Looks like somebody will be getting a little vacation time? https://apnews.com/article/train-derailment-ohio-alabama-norfolk-southern-166dd9776537e93e1715a619d17374d7
Question: would 6 axel DIT locomotives have superior braking to a typical 4 axel freight car? That might induce cars to bunch up behind it?
mudchickenMultiple mechanical bubbas failed this test.
Interesting,.....A local news story mentions the locos in question were picked up in Bluffton indiana, Feb 24. Which seems like an odd place for them to have originated. Don't know if they had been in storage there, or simply set out there enroute from another point of origin.
Perhaps they belonged to a short line down there. Wondering who NS would have down there who is capable of performing such an inspection, properly, prior to incorporating them on a train??
Hopefully RRNut282 will see this, and elaborate on the source?
This snip is from the rypn link Balt posted earlier:
Although it was not released in the preliminary report, the locos in question were a pair of ex-IC GP10 rebuilds, formerly used by the Wabash Central short line out of Bluffton, Ind. and reportedly sold to a South American company earlier this year, and apparently en route to a port city for export shipment via Atlanta.
Also noted in that post is that the NTSB has not indicated the couplers contributed to the derailment. At this point, it is just a statement that NS procedures were not followed.
Thanks, ,.....then forget my earlier question about 6 axel.
Convicted One Question: would 6 axle DIT locomotives have superior braking to a typical 4 axle freight car? That might induce cars to bunch up behind it?
Question: would 6 axle DIT locomotives have superior braking to a typical 4 axle freight car? That might induce cars to bunch up behind it?
Those GP10's are IC (Paducah) rebuilt GP9's, thus 4 axle.
Coupler limiting blocks are not some NEW technology. They have been in use since the 1950's if not before, when Butthead yard engines were all the rage and had to be delivered from Manufacturer to customer.
Hypothetically, what is the next step for the owner of these non-compliant locomotives?
Obviously NS is not going to re-rail them and continue on to the original destination.
Did the owner just sell his locomotives to the insurance company? Or is he going to have to go to Alabama, hire a crane, and then flat-bed the locomotives to a repair facility?
That's gotta be a pretty big dent in whatever sale price he was getting from the buyer?
Convicted OneHypothetically, what is the next step for the owner of these non-compliant locomotives?
Where they go is an issue for the owning/selling company and the insurers. Presumably since these are GP10s they will either receive the necessary rebuilding or will be parted out, depending on the actual damage (which I do not know yet).
Overmod some guy with a portable welding rig. After the locomotives are rerailed and the wheeltreads, flanges, bearings, etc. field inspected, he will weld eight little stop blocks back where they should have been, and the locomotives will be 'safed' for transport under the NS rule.
So, you believe that NS will allow the owner to set up a repair shop on their property? (to field install the stop blocks)? I'm surprised they would be so cooperative.
For many years NS locomotives with "Non-Alignment Control Draft Gear" have been conspicuously marked with a white line under the road number on the side of the cab. You can't miss it. I haven't seen any photos of the locos in question, so, I wonder if there was an obvious way that the crew knew that the units were equipped with the "NACDG"?
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Convicted One Overmod some guy with a portable welding rig. After the locomotives are rerailed and the wheeltreads, flanges, bearings, etc. field inspected, he will weld eight little stop blocks back where they should have been, and the locomotives will be 'safed' for transport under the NS rule. So, you believe that NS will allow the owner to set up a repair shop on their mainline? (to field install the stop blocks)? I'm surprised they would be so cooperative.
So, you believe that NS will allow the owner to set up a repair shop on their mainline? (to field install the stop blocks)? I'm surprised they would be so cooperative.
As a part of the bill of lading for the revenue transportation of the locomotives NS is in part on the hook for repairs to the locomotives in the same manner that they are for any other revenue shipment they damage in transit.
Alignment control block are not something that are PERMANENTLY attached and in place on locomotives. They are required when the locomotives are in the engine consist of over the road freight trains. They are removed when the locomotives are being used in yard or local freight service. The curves and conditions encountered in yard and customer facilities create situations where maximum side to side coupler movement is required to couple to cars.
Suspect at some point there will be a Court Room conflict between NS and the Shipper of the locomotives. NS contending the Shipper being at fault for offering the locomotives for shipment without the alignment control blocks in place. The Shipper countering, NS inspected the locomotives and allowed the locomotives to be moved without the alignment control blocks in place, in violation of NS's own rules.
Part of the EMD practice of shipping non-alignment control draft gear locos with swing hanger trucks, beside welding the coupler stops into the draft gear pocket, was to install lateral stop blocks that limited how much the bolster could move laterally relative to the truck frame. The standard free clearance on each side between bolster and truck frame is 2.25", the bolster stops limited it to 1" as I recall. They were bolted in with a single bolt going into a block welded to the top of the truck frame at the center of the truck so they could be easily removed when put into service. I would recommend this also be done.
I can remember two incidents in shipping F40PH's located behind the power that derailed under heavy buff loading. I believe both were due to not installing the bolster stops and/or coupler stops. It's typical that non-alignment control draft gear are used in passenger service and on switchers.
Dave
This same type of incident happened over 20 years ago in Alberta, only with a couple of CN's own yard engines (rebuilt GP9RMs). We still have some units without alignment control couplers, in particular our Calgary, Alberta terminal (where this train was destined) still has quite a bit of industrial trackage with very tight curves, which only certain units are allowed to operate on.
https://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2002/r02c0050/r02c0050.html
Our operating manual still allows for the movement of one or two units without alignment control couplers on the head end of trains, subject to restrictions on trailing tonnage and DB use.
We are also instructed to consider any passenger units and foreign 4-axle freight units as not having alignment control couplers unless we are informed otherwise.
I've seen units being moved with coupler blocks in place. They are pretty small and I can't imagine they are very difficult to install or remove.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Oops, corrected the reading of my statement above.
Convicted One Overmod some guy with a portable welding rig. After the locomotives are rerailed and the wheeltreads, flanges, bearings, etc. field inspected, he will weld eight little stop blocks back where they should have been, and the locomotives will be 'safed' for transport under the NS rule. So, you believe that NS will allow the owner to set up a repair shop on their property? (to field install the stop blocks)? I'm surprised they would be so cooperative.
CSX was moving 5 units Dead in tow that all derailed in LaGrange Ga . They were rerailed and located on a convenient siding and some one came in and fixed the problem . CSX later moved them to the Loco rebuild facility in GA.
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