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question what is this railroad related sign

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question what is this railroad related sign
Posted by jimdays on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 6:17 AM

This sign:

https://files.videohelp.com/u/61125/pcc.jpg

is on a former railroad turned into a 6 mile bike path that goes NW from Columbus, Ohio to Plain City and beyond. The railroad used to be Penn Central. I believe this sign is railroad related, but I'm not sure. if so, what does STL mean and what is the general meaning of the sign? There are several of these signs spread some distance apart. Only the number (550) is different on each sign. It seems that the signs would have been pulled out when the bike path was constructed, and possibly put back in for historical purposes. 

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 9:47 AM

Google "Panhandle Route" for your answer.  The "St.L.", as you might expect, is for "St. Louis".

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 10:19 AM

jimdays
This sign:

https://files.videohelp.com/u/61125/pcc.jpg

is on a former railroad turned into a 6 mile bike path that goes NW from Columbus, Ohio to Plain City and beyond. The railroad used to be Penn Central. I believe this sign is railroad related, but I'm not sure. if so, what does STL mean and what is the general meaning of the sign? There are several of these signs spread some distance apart. Only the number (550) is different on each sign. It seems that the signs would have been pulled out when the bike path was constructed, and possibly put back in for historical purposes. 

They would have been 'Milepost markers'.  Workers on the tracks need to know where 'here' is.  Each segment of track has milepost designations applied to it.  Train crews refer to mileposts when their train is stopped account emergency braking.  Trackmen refer to mileposts when they have to occupy track or work on some form of track defect.

In the civilian world, locations are nominally identified by 'hundred block' of a street.  In the railroad world locations are identified by milepost.

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 11:45 AM

Some (but not all) highways also have milepost markers, some broken down to the 1/10th of a mile.  A good thing to keep track of in case you have a breakdown and need to call for assistance. 

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Posted by timz on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 12:17 PM

Can't explain the 550, tho, if it's NW of Columbus. No place is 550 miles from there, is it?

The 1967 timetable says it was double track with cab signals

http://prr.railfan.net/documents/pdf/timetables/employee/PRR_ETT_WesternRegion_No7_10-29-1967.pdf

 

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Posted by Electroliner 1935 on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 12:30 PM

I suspect that this trail is on the former PCC&StL RR right of way and that this is a trail sign. When I woeked on the Pensylvania Railroad (which owned &  operated the PCC&StL) mile markers were concrete or on the wayside poles. NEVER round. The 550 might be the length of the tunnel. Or the distance from Philadelphia PA.

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 1:08 PM

timz
Can't explain the 550, tho, if it's NW of Columbus. No place is 550 miles from there, is it?

As a 'rule of thumb' each carrier has some point on their property that the company defines as Zero milepost.  On the B&O that was Camden Station in Baltimore.  The ACL and SAL and RF&P all had their Zero milepost at some point in Richmond.  I believe the SP had their Zero milepost at some location in San Francisco.

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Posted by rdamon on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 1:23 PM

Electroliner 1935

I suspect that this trail is on the former PCC&StL RR right of way and that this is a trail sign. When I woeked on the Pensylvania Railroad (which owned &  operated the PCC&StL) mile markers were concrete or on the wayside poles. NEVER round. The 550 might be the length of the tunnel. Or the distance from Philadelphia PA.

 

That looks correct.

from the history this was the Columbus, Piqua & Indiana Railroad.

http://www.heritagerailtrail.org/about.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh,_Cincinnati,_Chicago_and_St._Louis_Railroad

"The CP&I was sold at foreclosure on August 6, 1863, and reorganized October 30 as the Columbus and Indianapolis Railroad"

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Posted by mudchicken on Tuesday, January 10, 2023 6:05 PM

Train length marker/indicator? Was this near the approach to a yard or junction point?

On the milepost comment (don't think this is one), there is also the concept of where the real milepost is vs. just another sign. (that thought ought to register with DC or Liner)

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 10:14 AM

BaltACD
The ACL and SAL and RF&P all had their Zero milepost at some point in Richmond.

Unless I'm mistaken I believe the ACL and the RF&P had their zero mileposts in the center of the ACL bridge over the James River, ACL heading south and RF&P heading north.

The SAL I'm not sure, if it was in Richmond it was most likely in the SAL's Hermitage Yard, just south of the RF&P's Acca Yard. 

Anyone can feel free to correct me if I've gotten it wrong.

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Posted by timz on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 11:43 AM

Meaning the middle of the original ACL bridge?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 12:09 PM

timz

Meaning the middle of the original ACL bridge?

 

This one, to be exact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSX_A-Line_Bridge

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 12:58 PM

Milepost zero may not even be rail served any more.  The Carthage, Watertown & Sackets Harbor (NY) was extended east of Carthage, into the Adirondacks.  The track from Sackets Harbor to Watertown came up in 1949.  The track from Watertown to Carthage came up in the sixties, I believe.  But the tracks east of Carthage, up to Benson Mines, still carry "SH" mileposts, with distances measured from Sackets Harbor.

Similarly, the Mohawk and Malone ran from Herkimer, NY to Remsen, then north into the Adirondacks.  The line from Herkimer to Remsen came up years ago, yet mileposts on today's Adirondack Railroad still carry an "H".

Adirondack trains today use the former Utica and Black River, with mileposts measured from Utica.  This causes an interesting gap, in that Snow Junction, just north of Remsen, and where the Adirondack line breaks off from the Mohawk, Adirondack and Northern (a GVT property) is about MP U22.  The Adirondack line picks up from there with H mileposts, beginning about MP H29...

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 1:49 PM

The same thing occurs with various and sundry branch lines that are two separate stubs after the middle was abandoned.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 2:25 PM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The same thing occurs with various and sundry branch lines that are two separate stubs after the middle was abandoned.

When CSXT (emphasis on T) was in the planning stages, with the understanding that Computer Assisted Train Dispatching would be implemented upon the entire CSX property it fell to the Operations Planning Department, that was housed adjacent to the headquarters organization I was working for at the time, to 'design' unique Milepost designations for the trackage of every subdivision that was being operated.  From a computer perspective a six character space was allocated for the milepost.  Milepost designations for this purpose could be both alpha and numeric.  The 'system' that was implemented nominally gave the Main Lines a contiguous 'identity' form orign to end, Thus the former ACL 'A' Line has milepost A designations for its distance, with Richmond being considered as milepost A 0.  Jacksonville is A 640.  Former ACL lines would have a subdivision designator starting with A.  Former SAL lines would have a subdivion designator starting with S, Homestead, FL I believe was SX1033.  Former L&N lines were give 000(zero) designators, Birmingham is 000389, Montgomery is 000489.  

It is my belief, but I don't know it for a fact, that all lines in the US have unique milepost designators as movement data is interchanged among the carriers through the AAR's data systems. 

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, January 11, 2023 2:29 PM

Many mileposts on the CSX St. Lawrence Sub show an "S," for Syracuse.  For official purposes, however, the prefix on the sub is "QM."

If memory serves, the mileposts on the double track through Deshler are "BI."

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Posted by timz on Thursday, January 12, 2023 5:47 PM

Turns out multimodalways.org has a 1953 ACL chart -- looks like ACL milepost zero was then about here

https://goo.gl/maps/yQq7pRjU6xiXhwdz9

so presumably the original MP 0 was somewhere on the original river bridge.

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Posted by chatanuga on Thursday, January 12, 2023 8:02 PM

If this is the rail-trail that heads out of Hilliard that Conrail abandoned in the 1980s, I'm not sure if these are accurate milemarkers.  Haven't been on the trail since last fall, but the numbers increase by 10 with each sign (610, 620, 630, etc.), and there are more than one sign per mile as they have the trail milemarkers along the route as well for the 6.2 miles that it goes from Hilliard out towards Plain City.

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, January 12, 2023 11:35 PM

chatanuga
If this is the rail-trail that heads out of Hilliard that Conrail abandoned in the 1980s,

Based on the OP's description, it's the "Heritage Rail-Trail."  I tried looking on line for anything resembling a timetable for the line, but nothing popped right up.

Nothing in the website about the trail mentions any signs.

I would opine that the signs might be miles and tenths, without the decimal point, so "533" would be MP 53.3.  This might have been to mark a miscellaneous landmark.  My guess.  

LarryWhistling
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Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
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Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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