This is the first I have heard of this problem. Will the effect RRs getting new rail or are the rail manufacturers locked in the processes of just making rail.? Might be a problem for replacement rail, new routes, or for any more double tracking ?
U.S. manufacturers grapple with steel shortages, soaring prices (msn.com)
blue streak 1This is the first I have heard of this problem. Will the effect RRs getting new rail or are the rail manufacturers locked in the processes of just making rail.? Might be a problem for replacement rail, new routes, or for any more double tracking ? U.S. manufacturers grapple with steel shortages, soaring prices (msn.com)
What the article is mentioning is steel sheet - used in the manufacture of consumer products - refrigerators, washers, dryers etc. That is also used in the manufacture of automobiles.
The article doesn't really mention structural type steel such as rail. Secondly, the US carriers have been using foreign manufactured rail for decades.
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Does that mill in Colorado still produce rails? If so, are they the only rail mill left in North America?
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SD70DudeDoes that mill in Colorado still produce rails? If so, are they the only rail mill left in North America?
Doesn't UP have a deal with a Japanese steel mill and shipping company to get rail from Japan in 480 foot lengths.
BaltACDDoesn't UP have a deal with a Japanese steel mill and shipping company to get rail from Japan in 480 foot lengths.
There was an article about that in one of the railfan mags - might have even been Trains.
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Sheet steel products, like cladding for pole barns and commercial steel buildings are jumping up about 10% per month. When demand and pricing for one type of steel product go up, demand and prices for other types of steel products seem to go up as well.
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tree68 BaltACD Doesn't UP have a deal with a Japanese steel mill and shipping company to get rail from Japan in 480 foot lengths. There was an article about that in one of the railfan mags - might have even been Trains.
BaltACD Doesn't UP have a deal with a Japanese steel mill and shipping company to get rail from Japan in 480 foot lengths.
https://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/long-rail-3-27-2015.htm
Drone video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ghWi4UHZzow
SD70Dude Does that mill in Colorado still produce rails? If so, are they the only rail mill left in North America?
In the USA, there are currently only 3 producers of steel railroad rail.
Evraz Rocky Mountain Steel (former CF&I) located in Pueblo, CO. They currently produce rail in standard 80 foot lengths, but recently announced plans to update the Pueblo mill and make 100 meter long (328 feet) strings of rail.
https://www.chieftain.com/story/special/2020/08/07/evraz-on-solid-ground-in-pueblo-with-new-rail-mill-project/42259749/
Steel Dynamics Inc (SDI) is the newest rail mill in the US located in Columbia City, IN. It began rolling rails in 2014 for Class I operations and can produce rail up to 320 foot lengths.
https://www.steeldynamics.com/Products/Rail.aspx
The final US rail mill is Cleveland Cliffs Steelton mill (formerly ArcelorMittal, and before that was Bethlehem Steel) located in Steelton, PA. They can roll rail in standard lengths of 80 feet.
http://www.clevelandcliffs.com/English/Operations/Steelmaking/Steelton/default.aspx
While the Japanese rail maker Nippon Steel can produce longer rail at 480 foot, the US Class Is will soon have two domestic mills for long rail production without the added expense of overseas shipping.
Frank
According to vessel tracking website the Pacific Spike has not come to Stockton in over a year.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
So! Either UP has not bought new rail or uses one of the three USA suppliers?
daveklepperSo! Either UP has not bought new rail or uses one of the three USA suppliers?
A court upheld the tariffs early this month. Biden may or may not rescind the steel tariff. The time to assess the Japanese long-rail 'advantage' would be after the tariff is rescinded or perhaps reduced.
Since Biden has actually reimposed a metals tariff Trump lifted (in Arabia, on aluminum) that remains uncertain.
Overmod tree68 BaltACD Doesn't UP have a deal with a Japanese steel mill and shipping company to get rail from Japan in 480 foot lengths. There was an article about that in one of the railfan mags - might have even been Trains. And we've discussed it here -- there's even a special ship to handle the long sticks, 'Pacific Spike'. Here's UP's story about it: https://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/long-rail-3-27-2015.htm Drone video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ghWi4UHZzow
And we've discussed it here -- there's even a special ship to handle the long sticks, 'Pacific Spike'. Here's UP's story about it:
Wonder how much time it takes the ship to navigate from the ocean to the dock in Stockton?
It's about 4-5 weeks in transit
Outsailing86It's about 4-5 weeks in transit
How much time from the inland waterway's mouth on the Pacific Ocean to the vessel's docking at Stockton? I don't care about the time from Japan to the US Pacific Coast.
Rough guess would be under two days (perhaps well under).
Erik_Mag Rough guess would be under two days (perhaps well under).
It's fifty miles as the crow flies from Crockett (Carquinez Strait) to Stockton. Sixty-four by road. Possibly seventy-five miles up the San Joaquin River for the ship. It's 45 miles from Antioch to Stockton in the channel. The channel is maintained to 35 feet and can handle ships up to 900 feet.
I'm guessing 10 knots tops in the channel, so 8-10 hours would be a reasonable estimate.
tree68 Erik_Mag Rough guess would be under two days (perhaps well under). It's fifty miles as the crow flies from Crockett (Carquinez Strait) to Stockton. Sixty-four by road. Possibly seventy-five miles up the San Joaquin River for the ship. It's 45 miles from Antioch to Stockton in the channel. The channel is maintained to 35 feet and can handle ships up to 900 feet. I'm guessing 10 knots tops in the channel, so 8-10 hours would be a reasonable estimate.
10 knots sould like a high speed for a ocean going vessel on a relatively narrow navigable waterway - with or without tugs.
Watched lakers navigate the Cuyahoga River to the mills in Cleveland - their speeds were in the 1 to 2 knot range - with tugs. Time spent passing a fixed point would be on the order of 5 to 8 minutes - depending upon size of the vessel.
Vessels that entered the river from Lake Erie bow first would then exit the river stern first.
https://www.spn.usace.army.mil/Portals/68/docs/Hydrosurvey/Sacramento/2021/SA_01_STO_20210125_CS/SA_01_STO_20210125_CS.pdf?ver=ULQWNqwCnQ7m5-YQWIUWuA%3d%3d
BaltACD10 knots sould like a high speed for a ocean going vessel on a relatively narrow navigable waterway - with or without tugs.
A reasonable conclusion. I kinda picked 10 knots out of the air, anyhow.
Guidance for the St Lawrence Seaway is 6 knots in canals.
I believe I saw a video of a ship leaving Cleveland on the Cayuhoga River - there was a notch where the ship could turn (back in, pull out) so it went out bow first.
The video was run at several times normal, so I couldn't get a sense of actual speed.
I've seen quite a few freighters in the Rouge River going to the Ford Rouge Plant. They all go slow but the captains who are "regulars" on the run are noticeably "faster" (a relative term).
tree68 BaltACD 10 knots sould like a high speed for a ocean going vessel on a relatively narrow navigable waterway - with or without tugs. A reasonable conclusion. I kinda picked 10 knots out of the air, anyhow. Guidance for the St Lawrence Seaway is 6 knots in canals. I believe I saw a video of a ship leaving Cleveland on the Cayuhoga River - there was a notch where the ship could turn (back in, pull out) so it went out bow first. The video was run at several times normal, so I couldn't get a sense of actual speed.
BaltACD 10 knots sould like a high speed for a ocean going vessel on a relatively narrow navigable waterway - with or without tugs.
When I was working in Cleveland - driving from Clark Ave. Yard Office to Whiskey Island, West 3rd Street crossed the Cuyahoga at 3 different locations - it wasn't unheard of for a trip between the two point to be delayed by the same boat passing through each of the drawbridges.
The B&O itself had three drawbridges between Clark Ave. Yard and the Penn Central Interchange at Whiskey Island. Bridge 460 was a Train Order Station and manned around the clock. Bridges 463 and 464 had one bridge operator for the pair of bridges and worked 3 PM to 11 PM (or as late as necessary for the Yard crew to return to Clark Ave. after making the interchange).
162.205Suisun Bay, San Joaquin River, Sacramento River, and connecting waters, CA.(a) San Joaquin River Deep Water Channel between Suisun Bay and the easterly end of the channel at Stockton; use, administration and navigation—(1) Maximum speed. The maximum speed for all ocean-going craft shall not exceed 10 miles per hour above the lower end of New York Slough, seven miles per hour above Criminal Point, or five miles per hour while passing any wharf, dock, or moored craft. As used in this paragraph, the speed of a vessel when navigating with the current shall be its rate of movement in excess of the velocity of the current.
David1005162.205Suisun Bay, San Joaquin River, Sacramento River, and connecting waters, CA.
Thanks!
New York Slough is roughly Antioch/Pittsburg. I couldn't fine Criminal Point, but did find a "Prisoner's Point," possibly one in the same. While perusing the topo map, however, I did find "mile markers" for the Stockton channel. Mile Zero is where the Stockton and Sacramento deep water channels diverge as they leave Suisun Bay. Stockton is Mile 40.
Using the mandated 5 MPH for passing wharves, etc, as a reference (funny they didn't use knots), that stretch would be an eight hour trip, maybe less. The transit from the Golden Gate Bridge to that point may be similar, probably less.
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