ALL:
Does anyone know how on finds Mexican Operating Rules on the internet?
Ed Burns
I just checked. The Mexican railrodas have adopted the GCOR (General Code Of Operating Rules) rules.
Caldreamer
.
caldreamerI just checked. The Mexican railrpads have adopted the GCOR (General Code Of Operating Rules) rules.
What I was able to find (it wasn't enough to post as an answer) was that each Mexican system is required to have its own code of operating rules. Back in the days of NdeM this was a proprietary 'thing' (and you can sometimes find copies on eBay) but things have since been privatized.
GCOR had a Spanish-language version circa 2009 and there was discussion of a couple of systems adopting this on TrainOrders, but I have been unable to find either a working copy of any Mexican railroad's code of rules or a statement indicating a Spanish-language GCOR was commonly adopted.
In part this might be a matter of perceived national pride, like keeping the Isthmus of Tehuantepec Railway a strictly 'National' treasure (and something of a persistent underfunded technical joke!). It would certainly make sense to me to have a 'standardized' North American GCOR, extended to special Mexican practice if necessary, and then 'harmonize' the language versions in committee so things like training could be coordinated.
NP Eddie:
Here is a linked site[PDF] which may help answer your questions.
1.) https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/14mexicorail.pdf
2.) Could find nothing published in an Internet site:
The following linked site is a discussion on the site: 'Trainorders.com'
Hopefully, it will help you. Linked @
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4084901
https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/14mexicorail
I downloaded the GCOR rules and under the railroads that adopted them are the Mexican railroads. So I stand by my statement per the GCOR rules.
Overmod https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/14mexicorail "Can't find your requested page"
"Can't find your requested page"
Overmod: Try this link
@ https://www.itf-oecd.org/sites/default/files/docs/14mexicorail.pdf
Here is their website:
The International Transport Forum’s website is at: www.internationaltransportforum.org
caldreamer I downloaded the GCOR rules and under the railroads that adopted them are the Mexican railroads. So I stand by my statement per the GCOR rules. Caldreamer
I see Transportacion Ferroviaria Mexicana (Kansas City Southern de Mexico) listed in the "adopted by" section of the 8th edition of GCOR.
Jeff
jeffhergert caldreamer I downloaded the GCOR rules and under the railroads that adopted them are the Mexican railroads. So I stand by my statement per the GCOR rules. Caldreamer I see Transportacion Ferroviaria Mexicana (Kansas City Southern de Mexico) listed in the "adopted by" section of the 8th edition of GCOR. Jeff
Do they have any track in the US at all as well? They might be covered by GCOR in the US... (Although they could have adopted it, or similar set of rules in Mexico as well.)
The Canadian Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR) of 1962 lists New York Central and Chessapeake and Ohio as railroads governed by the rulebook. This is probably just for those lines in southern Ontario. On the other hand, the Canadian 1962 UCOR also says it applies to Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg, & Pacific.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
cv_acrThe Canadian Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR) of 1962 lists New York Central and Chessapeake and Ohio as railroads governed by the rulebook. This is probably just for those lines in southern Ontario. On the other hand, the Canadian 1962 UCOR also says it applies to Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg, & Pacific.
To bring this current in context: does the CN operation over the ex-IC use CROR? And how, if so, is this harmonized with operations through Aulon in Memphis (which include CSX between the ex-L&N and Broadway) that I suspect are GCOR.
KCS obviously has track in the US but, KCSM lines are south of the border only. KCS did move the interchange point between the two entities from the middle of the international bridge to the KCS Laredo yard about ten miles distant. KCSM crews operate across the border to the KCS Laredo yard. Ownership of the ten miles from the border to the Laredo Yard remains with KCS though.
One can safely assume the Mexican crews are subject to GCOR on the US side of the border.
Curt
Overmod cv_acr The Canadian Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR) of 1962 lists New York Central and Chessapeake and Ohio as railroads governed by the rulebook. This is probably just for those lines in southern Ontario. On the other hand, the Canadian 1962 UCOR also says it applies to Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg, & Pacific. That's an interesting question. What governed the CP operation across to St. John via Megantic in the portion running across Maine? To bring this current in context: does the CN operation over the ex-IC use CROR? And how, if so, is this harmonized with operations through Aulon in Memphis (which include CSX between the ex-L&N and Broadway) that I suspect are GCOR.
cv_acr The Canadian Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR) of 1962 lists New York Central and Chessapeake and Ohio as railroads governed by the rulebook. This is probably just for those lines in southern Ontario. On the other hand, the Canadian 1962 UCOR also says it applies to Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg, & Pacific.
That's an interesting question. What governed the CP operation across to St. John via Megantic in the portion running across Maine?
The CP line mentioned was a portion of their complete line between Montreal, QC and Saint John, NB. I'm 99% sure it would have used the UCOR rules.
CN's entry in the "list of governed railways" (in 1962 when the book was published) says "including lines in the US" (there's a spot where CN drops into Minnesota) and specifically lists subsidiaries Central Vermont and Duluth, Winnipeg, and Pacific, but interestingly NOT Grand Trunk Western.
I'm not sure if modern GTW and other associated US lines actually use CROR or an American rulebook - and with all the mergers of Illinois Central, Wisconsin Central, Elgin, Joliet & Eastern there's probably some US rules in effect on most of those lines. (Particularly if signal rules and indications on those lines weren't identical to Canadian practice...)
Also interesting that the 1962 UCOR book does NOT mention Great Northern which operated into Vancouver, BC from Washington, and also in Winnipeg, MB (later as Burlington Northern Manitoba lines - even having their own assigned power with BNML reporting marks). BNSF still operates into these areas today.
The C&O and NYC had much more extensive and "stand alone" (sort of, they did support some overhead traffic between Detroit, MI and Buffalo, NY) systems in Ontario, operating at least on some level using the Canadian rule book. Part of the old C&O still exists today as an isolated CSX operation in Sarnia, ON - it's basically a shortline operated by a Class I. NYC also ran up into Montreal to connect with CN and CP which is also still operated by CSX. Most of the NYC system in Ontario is gone now though, with only pieces here and there forming parts of CN's network.
CN's American lines use the United States Operating Rules (USOR).
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Juniata Man KCS obviously has track in the US but, KCSM lines are south of the border only. KCS did move the interchange point between the two entities from the middle of the international bridge to the KCS Laredo yard about ten miles distant. KCSM crews operate across the border to the KCS Laredo yard. Ownership of the ten miles from the border to the Laredo Yard remains with KCS though. One can safely assume the Mexican crews are subject to GCOR on the US side of the border. Curt
Being subject to rules is not the same as adopting a rule book. Back when there were a few rules associations (Consolidated Code, Uniform Code-not affiliated with the Canadian version) and railroads with their own rule book, where one railroad operated over another the employee time table would identify where the owning road's rules would apply. The wording would be something like, "Between (location) and (location) be governed by XYZ RR rules and time table." Employees of the tennant road who worked over that section would generally have to be qualified on those rules.
It is possible that KCSM has adopted GCOR for lines near the US border. There are examples of railroads having two different rule books in effect, but not over the same lines. UP pre GCOR had their own rules for the operating department for most of the railroad except for lines in the northwest. There they used the Consolidated Code, but even that was slowly being replaced by UP rules. GCOR finally brought everyone together. I believe NS and CSX both have their own book, but use NORAC on their former Conrail lines.
jeffhergert I believe NS and CSX both have their own book, but use NORAC on their former Conrail lines.
I know that CSX used NORAC for several years after they took over the Conrail line through my area - I heard Form D's dictated on a regular basis (dark territory). Then one day it was EC1's instead.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68 jeffhergert I believe NS and CSX both have their own book, but use NORAC on their former Conrail lines. I know that CSX used NORAC for several years after they took over the Conrail line through my area - I heard Form D's dictated on a regular basis (dark territory). Then one day it was EC1's instead.
If it is EC1's it is CSX Rules - they may have incorporated many of the NORAC rules and just stated them in CSX verbiage.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDIf it is EC1's it is CSX Rules - they may have incorporated many of the NORAC rules and just stated them in CSX verbiage.
Exactly. It just took them a couple of years to move over from NORAC.
I'd imagine that most of the rulebooks are essentially the same, only the rule numbers have changed.
tree68 BaltACD If it is EC1's it is CSX Rules - they may have incorporated many of the NORAC rules and just stated them in CSX verbiage. Exactly. It just took them a couple of years to move over from NORAC. I'd imagine that most of the rulebooks are essentially the same, only the rule numbers have changed.
BaltACD If it is EC1's it is CSX Rules - they may have incorporated many of the NORAC rules and just stated them in CSX verbiage.
Rule numbers are pretty much standard among all rule books.
The biggest difference is in what specific paper forms are required for compliant operation ie. EC-1 on CSX; Form D for NORAC and various other nomenclature for other rule books.
Say Rule G and virtually EVERY railroader, no matter the rules they operate under, will know what is being referred to.
BaltACDSay Rule G and virtually EVERY railroader, no matter the rules they operate under, will know what is being referred to.
Indeed. And if they don't, they should...
BaltACD tree68 BaltACD If it is EC1's it is CSX Rules - they may have incorporated many of the NORAC rules and just stated them in CSX verbiage. Exactly. It just took them a couple of years to move over from NORAC. I'd imagine that most of the rulebooks are essentially the same, only the rule numbers have changed. Rule numbers are pretty much standard among all rule books. The biggest difference is in what specific paper forms are required for compliant operation ie. EC-1 on CSX; Form D for NORAC and various other nomenclature for other rule books. Say Rule G and virtually EVERY railroader, no matter the rules they operate under, will know what is being referred to.
Rule numbers once were pretty much standard. Back when everyone followed the pattern set by the Standard Code of Operating Rules. Now, not so much. The third edition of GCOR threw out the old numbering system.
For example Rule 93, the yard limit rule is now Rule 6.13. Rule 99 is now Rule 6.19.
There is a rule about drugs and alcohol, but it's no longer Rule G, although everyone knows what someone is talking about when they mention Rule G.
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