Four Republican Congressmen raise concerns about Vice President Biden's Amtrak Campaign Train.

[NP Eddie]

ALL:

The Train News Digest does not have a place to comment about the above topic.

All I see is that the four Republic Congressmen are blowing a lot of smoke about a campaign train. Many federal campaigns have used trains, that is a fact. Those four congressmen have forgotten about the Crozett, VA Republican Special Amtrak Train P923-31that hit a garbage truck on a retreat from Washington, DC to White Sulphur Springs.

It would seem that the Trump campaign pays for Air Force 1 to accompany President Trump for his many campaign trips.

Too much smoke for a train trip and forgetting their own special train.

Ed Burns

Retired Class 1

[Flintlock76]

Not taking sides here, but I'm more than sure Amtrak was well-paid for the campaign train charter.  Considering everything involved with a campaign train besides the train itself (don't forget the host railroads, if any) it's a safe bet Amtrak made money on the deal.

A lot of the people in Congress of both parties  aren't too bright.  You wonder how they got there to begin with.  

This is a non-issue.

[SD60MAC9500]

 

Flintlock76

Not taking sides here, but I'm more than sure Amtrak was well-paid for the campaign train charter.  Considering everything involved with a campaign train besides the train itself (don't forget the host railroads, if any) it's a safe bet Amtrak made money on the deal.

A lot of the people in Congress of both parties  aren't too bright.  You wonder how they got there to begin with.  

This is a non-issue.

 

Indeed. Null and void. Our current political atmosphere is a circus..

 

[caldreamer]

Do not forget President Trumans famous whistle stop tour by train.  It helped him win the 1948 election.

[Flintlock76]

caldreamer

Do not forget President Trumans famous whistle stop tour by train.  It helped him win the 1948 election.

 

No forgetting that one!  The moral of the story is "It ain't over 'till it's over!"  Thomas Dewey got over-confident with the polling data that showed him with a clear lead over Truman and got lazy, thinking he'd coast to the finish line.  Truman, on the other hand, campaigned hard right to the end and pulled off the upset.

Thomas Dewey was a thoroughly decent man by the way, and would have made a good president, but he had his chance at the brass ring and blew it.  That sounds harsh, I know, but I can't think of another way to put it.  

[Euclid]

Ed,

Regarding your title of this thread:

Four Republican Congressmen raise concerns about Vice President Biden's Amtrak Campaign Train.

 

What are the concerns being raised?

 

[JPS1]

caldreamer

 Do not forget President Trumans famous whistle stop tour by train.  It helped him win the 1948 election. 

In 1948 people in Altoona, where I grew up, went downtown to shop, go to the movies, eat at a restaurant, etc.  Downtown was where the action was; it was where the railroad station is located.  So, it was just anothe trip downtown to hear a candidate speak from the platform of a railroad business car at the station.

Today downtown Altoona is dead.  The action has moved to the outer edges of the city.  People don't go downtown very often today.  Whether a whistle stop campaign train would draw many people to downtown Altoona or Johnstown or Tyrone, etc. is problematic.  

[NP Eddie]

Please read the Trains News Digest article. It does a nice job of stating that the four congressmen are critical of AMTRAK for running a train when they have a shortage of equipment and the cost of moving on a freight railroad.

 

Ed

[BaltACD]

NP Eddie

Please read the Trains News Digest article. It does a nice job of stating that the four congressmen are critical of AMTRAK for running a train when they have a shortage of equipment and the cost of moving on a freight railroad.

Ed

Just like the GOP did last year with their Amtrak 'retreat' from DC to the Greenbriar.  Doubt the Biden campaign would stiff Amtrak on the fare.

[Enzoamps]

I might read the original article, but there was no link to it provided.

[jeffhergert]

caldreamer

Do not forget President Trumans famous whistle stop tour by train.  It helped him win the 1948 election.

 

So did Dewey.  There was a Railroader's Remberance on Classic Trains' site about a RI fireman working that train.  Unfortunately, it's no longer there.

Jeff

[samfp1943]

Enzoamps

I might read the original article, but there was no link to it provided.

Linked here [ an article that may, or may not be the O.P.'s sourced article. (?)]

@ https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-amtrak-trips-prompt-house-gop-questions-on-costs-impact-on-railroad-operations

"Biden's Amtrak trips prompt House GOP questions on costs, impact on railroad operations"

"We are concerned that the Biden campaign’s use of Amtrak’s charter train redirected Amtrak’s scarce resources,' a letter to the railroad's CEO stated" By David Aaro | Fox News

FTA:"...According to a September Federal Election Commission report, the Biden campaign reportedly paid $265,000 to the National Railroad Passenger Corporation, the entity that operates Amtrak..."

{NOTE: embedded in this paragraph is the Federal Election Commission report that lists the Biden Campaign Payment-$265K to AMTRK }

Further, FTA:"...

Biden’s three decades serving Delaware as a U.S. senator saw him take an Amtrak train each morning to the nation’s capital, and return each evening, to be with his family. His commuting earned him the nickname “Amtrak Joe.”

Some critics alleged the letter to Amtrak was in retaliation for President Trump taking heat for delivering a Republican National Convention speech from the White House lawn in August, which some claimed violated the Hatch Act that sets limits on political activity..."

Hopefully, Posting the above information, and article links will help those who are interested?

 

[Overmod]

Letter here: https://republicans-transportation.house.gov/uploadedfiles/10-20-20_amtrak_letter.pdf?utm_campaign=196649-345

Edit: I was fighting with this link to get it to light up when added to the post, and did not notice that York1 had posted it first 'in the meantime'.  He gets full effective priority.  (It appears surprisingly difficult to find this link in Google!)

If there is a 'partisan-free' discussion in this -- and I happen to think there is -- it starts with Amtrak's crackdown on one-time charters and private-car operations ... and the stated justifications given for that.

$265,000 seems cheap for an operation which may have involved considerable deadheading, special equipment preparation, and changes to operation patterns.  I doubt we know enough about Amtrak's accounting to see even peripheral proof of this, but an operation that wanted to bill scooter drivers north of 10% of this payment just to make safe room for them on a one-time trip does not strike me as an operation that could provide a full train at the 'billed' cost even without 'reasonable profit' or opportunity cost to other Amtrak customers.  

I do wonder how far a private group wanting to charter a comparable train would get if they arrived at the Amtrak offices with that amount of cash in hand...

[York1]

NP Eddie

Please read the Trains News Digest article. It does a nice job of stating that the four congressmen are critical of AMTRAK for running a train when they have a shortage of equipment and the cost of moving on a freight railroad.

 

Since there are some questions concerning exactly what this is about, rather than reading an article about the letter, how about reading the letter itself?

https://republicans-transportation.house.gov/uploadedfiles/10-20-20_amtrak_letter.pdf

 

Edit:  When I posted this, I didn't realize Overmod beat me to it by several minutes.

[Convicted One]

Overmod

If there is a 'partisan-free' discussion in this -- and I happen to think there is -- it starts with Amtrak's crackdown on one-time charters and private-car operations ... and the stated justifications given for that.

That was my very first thought upon reading the thread title. Oh how the privileged revel in extracting their indulgences. 

[wjstix]

I suspect this is going to be another case where the letter from the Congressmen will be well publicized (by them particularly), the answer saying that the Biden campaign paid all the expenses and that not only did Amtrak not lose any money, but were glad for the business given all the loss of passengers due to Covid, will go unreported.

BTW after 1960 presidential campaign trains became rare to non-existent until the 1970's, when they started to be used again as an attention getting device as much as anything...possibly due to the notoriety of Truman's campaign train stops that came to public attention due to the success of the Broadway play and movie "Give 'Em Hell Harry" with James Whitmore. Since 1976 I think every presidential campaign year has had at least one 'whistle stop' train event.

[Overmod]

wjstix

I suspect this is going to be another case where the letter from the Congressmen will be well publicized (by them particularly), the answer saying that the Biden campaign paid all the expenses and that not only did Amtrak not lose any money, but were glad for the business given all the loss of passengers due to Covid, will go unreported.

Not to be overtly political, but I think precisely the opposite is likely to be true: to the extent the Republican letter gets any traction in 'mainstream' reporting at all, it will be discredited outside the 'usual partisan sources' -- 'debunked' being more the kind of wording that will likely be used -- to establish that Biden's campaign did "pay" the amount requested and that it "was" additional income to Amtrak in these needful times from equipment made less necessary by the COVID-19 service cutbacks.

It will be interesting to see if the responses address whether $265,000 covers the actual costs of the train.  My guess is that they will not.  

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Overmod

It will be interesting to see if the responses address whether $265,000 covers the actual costs of the train.  My guess is that they will not.  

 

And once again we stumble onto the issue solely related vs. fully allocated costs.

[Overmod]

CSSHEGEWISCH

And once again we stumble onto the issue solely related vs. fully allocated costs.

Actually I was thinking strictly in terms of above-the-rail cost for that particular operation, with no contribution to track or 'overhead' at all.  It is of course much worse if you factor those costs in, but I think most of them would be only marginally actually increased by that one train, and therefore to include them or not would be just the kind of political spin we're wanting to avoid...

[blue streak 1]

All for candidates have their trips subsidized by the government.  Direct transportation of candidates and non government employees are  paid for at commercial air rates. Includes press pool reporters. In case of pres and VP paid to air Force.  All other government employees on the flight just ride.  Football carrier, secret service , secretaries, cabinet, military, and others needed to run goveernment do not pay.  Been that way for decades.

In the case of Biden / Harris  and Trump / Pence in 2016 any Secret service and other goverment employees, press. etc pay respective air fare to campaign . You better believe rock bottom fares are found and paid.  I imagine this year the $29 fares have often been used.

Biden train same thing and well as Truman, Ike, JFK, ETC.

[CMStPnP]

BaltACD

Just like the GOP did last year with their Amtrak 'retreat' from DC to the Greenbriar.  Doubt the Biden campaign would stiff Amtrak on the fare.

While I cannot speak for Amtrak, it is common practice for big companies to allow their private jets to be used for free or at least a steep discount by politicians.    So I would not be surprised if with campaign trains some costs or expenses are overlooked.    I don't think they ever charge full price for everything because they can write it off at years end as a political contribution.

I would not give the issues raised any serious thought.   If it was a huge concern there would be lobbying laws against these practices but so far nothing.

[CMStPnP]

blue streak 1

All for candidates have their trips subsidized by the government.  Direct transportation of candidates and non government employees are  paid for at commercial air rates. Includes press pool reporters. In case of pres and VP paid to air Force.  All other government employees on the flight just ride.  Football carrier, secret service , secretaries, cabinet, military, and others needed to run goveernment do not pay.  Been that way for decades.

Thats for the use of Government equipment only.   When your talking Private companies this is not the case and it is left to each Private Company to charge what they will.   Though I believe they pay full price for commercial airline charters, I think even with the airlines some costs are waived like onboard catering or VIP services in regards to boarding or placement of the aircraft.

With railroads, I'm sorry but I see the full UNION PACIFIC private car railway transet in Dallas at the behest of a Billionaire for charity purposes (Perot Family), then again here because the Bush Family wanted to use it for some purpose or another (I think it was Laura Bush and her Dallas Garden Club going on an outing or raising funds but not sure exactly.....just remember the train at Dallas Union Station and asking why).    I know that politicians also use business jets for free or as a function of lobbyists paying back for favors.    Thats been going on for decades and it is one of the justifications a CEO uses before the Corporate board for going with a business jet with all the frills and/or a very high top speed.....specifically because it makes the business jet an effective lobbying tool.

Perot Family is active in railroad park real estate development (BNSF Alliance Park for example in Fort Worth) as a coincidence.   So you can see that UNION PACIFIC has a business interest in keeping them happy.   As well as I suspect they also might be close friends with an Executive or large stockholder.    BTW, Union Pacific does know how to win friends and influence in Texas...no doubt about that.

[samfp1943]

CMStPnP wrote the following post [ In Part]18 hours ago:

AND blue streak 1 [commented as well] "...All for candidates have their trips subsidized by the government.  Direct transportation of candidates and non government employees are  paid for at commercial air rates..."

CMStPnP [as well]>>   "...Perot Family is active in railroad park real estate development (BNSF Alliance Park for example in Fort Worth) as a coincidence.   So you can see that UNION PACIFIC has a business interest in keeping them happy.   As well as I suspect they also might be close friends with an Executive or large stockholder.    BTW, Union Pacific does know how to win friends and influence in Texas...no doubt about that..."

Both poster added salient point to the discussion:  Both Union Pacific and BNSF are compeditors in a generallt paralle market area; and one can surmise, Public Relations, and 'Good Press' make both camps very happy! 

In the case of BNSF the presence of 'Company Equipment' { at whatever event it is deemed necessary, garners both press, and publicity; which will equal good will!

Union Pacific is very good at that practice of gamesmanship....High Profile presence of their corporate Passenger equiment; the donation of the #4141 to the Bush library. Absolutely! The very presence, at any level, of the UP's Steam Heritage equipment; is sure to garner many 'inches' of favorable press coverage. While reaping some crazy-good puiblicity, and overall, public good-will benefits.

And the ability to 'coddle' the political class, is like having a Fire Dept. That is  'Ready' to go at the moment it is needed; to put out 'services needed' by those  who might be called-on for those ubiquitous 'favors', when needed...