ALL:
In reading the NTSB report of the Dupont, Washington, several questions enter my mind. It would seem that a "trial" run without passengers would have been prudent. The roadway signs are clear (advance speed restriction and actual speed restriction) and easy to read. I do understand that one can be distracted while operating on a territory that one has not been over. Perhaps a 30MPH restriction for this run would have been the best option.
Am posting this for others to comment.
Ed Burns
Retired Class 1
The horse has been killed, beaten and flayed in the following thread
http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/743/p/276078/3154797.aspx#3154797
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Actually, and surprisingly considering the extent of postequicidal perverberation of the smallest details, the question he raises hasn't been beaten to the point of non-discussability. That point being, specifically, whether a period of training runs with the equipment should have been conducted over the newly-opened line before revenue passengers were carried.
Every light-rail system I can remember has had a period -- usually about a month -- in which "dummy" service is run. In fact I have wondered several times at the need for such extensive non-revenue operation, particularly when an agency's operating budget is restricted.
Here, however, despite the presence of an almost mind-bendingly stupid line characteristic, going straight from a 79mph downhill to a 30mph hard-restricted curve, there were few if any effective training runs under the actual conditions of service, certainly nothing that approximated typical line familiarity. While that aspect itself was beaten to death, I don't think the issue of how an extended dummy period of training was 'gotten around' has been.
The lack of training was driven by WSDOT, who managed the project, deciding long before the event that they would go to the new line at the next ATK timetable change. Failure one, ignorant bureaucrats picking an arbitraty date. Then the inevitable delays happened putting ATK up against a hard deadline, no surprise there.
Failure two was ATK management snapping to and saying 'Yes sir', to WSDOT to comply with an arbitrary political mandate using supervision that evidently never instituted service on a new line. ATK clearly had no standard of training so they trained to no standard. The blind were leading the blind.
Finally, to add insult to injury, the NTSB covered up the multiple management failures because it was all government actors, and trotted out their current favorite red herring of no PTC.
A thouroughly disgusting performance all around.
Mac
PNWRMNM The lack of training was driven by WSDOT, who managed the project, deciding long before the event that they would go to the new line at the next ATK timetable change. Failure one, ignorant bureaucrats picking an arbitraty date. Then the inevitable delays happened putting ATK up against a hard deadline, no surprise there. Failure two was ATK management snapping to and saying 'Yes sir', to WSDOT to comply with an arbitrary political mandate using supervision that evidently never instituted service on a new line. ATK clearly had no standard of training so they trained to no standard. The blind were leading the blind. Finally, to add insult to injury, the NTSB covered up the multiple management failures because it was all government actors, and trotted out their current favorite red herring of no PTC. A thouroughly disgusting performance all around. Mac
Agree wholeheartedly.
And what little training that was done, was not done with the equipment that would be used in revenue service nor in the time windows where revenue service would be performed and was done in a group mode rather than individual training. If you are not operating the controls with the equipment that will be used in revenue service you don't get the 'feel' of what the proper sensations are at any particular location on the run.
When Keolis won the contract to operate VRE from Amtrak, they spent 3 to 4 months working to qualify crews on all the VRE runs Fredericksbug to DC and Manassass to DC in each direction. While this training was done on nights and weekends it was not the kind of 'sham' training that was done on the WSDOT route. I don't know how many round trips each employee was trained on, but it was well North of 1.
As I recall when Keolis actually started service - their supervisors were actively involved with the operation of the trains - not 100 miles away on the telephone.
Overmodconsidering the extent of postequicidal perverberation of the smallest details
Hey, wait a minute, that's accurate Latin derivation, not doubletalk!
There's a difference between military-industrial optimization of sesquipedalian obfuscatory phraseology and the description of, say, the turboencabulator. I wish it to be strictly observed in our friendly discussions here.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GE_Turboencabulator_pg_1.jpg
(Sorry, I don't have a link for the retropleonastic service manual and songbook.)
(I have still never heard the 'terminology' read quite correctly, or for that matter seen 'wainshaft' spelled correctly in the Web accounts of the original or any of the subsequent follow-on parodies... doesn't phase-detract from the fun.)
OvermodActually, and surprisingly considering the extent of postequicidal perverberation of the smallest details, the question he raises hasn't been beaten to the point of non-discussability.
Perhaps, perhaps not, but your continued usage of arcane, obscure phrases should have been buried long ago.
[quote user="charlie hebdo"]
Overmod Actually, and surprisingly considering the extent of postequicidal perverberation of the smallest details, the question he raises hasn't been beaten to the point of non-discussability.
[/quote
You can't help yourself can you Charlie?
243129You can't help yourself can you Charlie?
Hey, give him a break, he didn't recognize it as sarcasm. Do I have anyone but myself to blame for that, really?
Overmod 243129 You can't help yourself can you Charlie? Hey, give him a break, he didn't recognize it as sarcasm. Do I have anyone but myself to blame for that, really?
243129 You can't help yourself can you Charlie?
For the record I understood you perfectly. And no one would ever dream of calling me arcane or obscure (they know what would happen...).
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Overmod Here, however, despite the presence of an almost mind-bendingly stupid line characteristic, going straight from a 79mph downhill to a 30mph hard-restricted curve, there were few if any effective training runs under the actual conditions of service, certainly nothing that approximated typical line familiarity. While that aspect itself was beaten to death, I don't think the issue of how an extended dummy period of training was 'gotten around' has been.
79 MPH downhill ending in a sharp curve?
Was there not a ballad about the hazards?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Man%27s_Curve_(song)
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Familization runs are important and a must. In 1988, the BN started running an interdivisional run from Northtown (Minneapolis) to Dilworth, MN (near Fargo). Both Dilworth and Northtown saw how their territories looked. The ratio between Northtown and Dilworth people is about 45-55%.
I'm just glad I finally understand how a turbo encabultor works. Also now we know what Overmod look and sounds like so we can put a face to the words.
Mea culpa. I should have used the sarcasm button.
I watched those "Turbo-Encabulator" vids and laughed my butt off!
Like a "Dilbert" comic strip brought to life!
Did Scott Adams collaborate on those things?
You know, I can just see a room full of MBA-mill grad career-crazed yuppies hanging on every word and accepting it all as gospel and terrified to admit they have no idea what he's talking about.
Scott Adams tried it as an experiment himself. It worked beyond his wildest dreams.
But NOBODY did doubletalk as well as Cliff Nazarro! Check these classics out...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFP6tlb0oOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhfi-xqcYeM
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