The March 2016 Trains magazine included an artical on the Edgewood Cutoff. The artical mentioned IC's old Carbondale District. I can'nt find any information on the it. Was the district an older parallel route to the cutoff? It sound's like the district was abandoned shortly after the cutoff was finished. Thank you for any information you can provide.
CNW_4009 The March 2016 Trains magazine included an artical on the Edgewood Cutoff. The artical mentioned IC's old Carbondale District. I can'nt find any information on the it. Was the district an older parallel route to the cutoff? It sound's like the district was abandoned shortly after the cutoff was finished. Thank you for any information you can provide.
I Cab't speak to the 'abandonment' you mentioned, but I do know that the Ill Dept of Trans operates a daily schedule between Carbondale and Chicago [309 mi in 5.5 hours] The locomoties currently, are the Siemens Chargers, and the coaches generally single level type. See link @ http://www.trainweb.org/usarail/illini.htm
Both lines are still in place and both see regular freight traffic.
East St. Louis to Carbondale is very much alive.But Carbondale to Paducah was gone by 1981. (Carterville/Marion/Seelyville)
i'd have to look at what he was reading.
The Edgewood Cutoff was built for freight service; it crosses the Ohio at Metropolis, and comes into the main line at Fulton, Kentucky.
Johnny
CNW_4009 The March 2016 Trains magazine included an artical on the Edgewood Cutoff.
The March 2016 Trains magazine included an artical on the Edgewood Cutoff.
Which was also the subject of an article in a circa 1941 and a circa 1953 issue of Trains. Interesting piece of work, designed for a 0.3% ruling grade and emphasis on through traffic as there wasn't much local traffc.
Thise old enough to remember the ABC's of railroading that appeared in MR 1967-68, may remember the article on grades with reference to 0.3% as an indication of a well engineered line. Back in the days of journal bearings, the rule of thumb was that rolling resistance was about 0.3% of weight, so a 0.3% grade would have the train weight that a locomotive could haul on perfecly level track.
CNW_4009I found this scrap of information about the Carbondale district in the book Trains across the Continent. Finicky Finnigan worked on the Carbondale district many years. He was known for his efficiency, dedication, and punctuality. His only band trait was writing lengthy derailment reports. Finnigan's derailment reports included everything to the mintutest detail. Then he would summarize it and write a summary of the summery. It got so bad that the head office dreaded a derailment report from agent Finnigan. Finally, the superintendant himself vistited Finnigan and ordered him to write the briefest possible report-absolutely no unnecessary words-just the facts. Following the superintendant's order, Finnigan used the following formula after listing the date and time of the derailment: Off again, On again, Gone again, Finnigan
Finnigan was the section foreman. Finnigan to Flannigan by Strickland Gillilan.
www.yourdailypoem.com/listpoem.jsp?poem_id=675
Jeff
mudchicken East St. Louis to Carbondale is very much alive.But Carbondale to Paducah was gone by 1981. (Carterville/Marion/Seelyville) i'd have to look at what he was reading.
Carbondale to Paducah passenger service ended in 1941. There was once 2 passenger trains each way between St. Louis and Paducah. The line was abandoned shortly after World War II, from Reevesville IL to Metropolis. I think they ran a local from Marion to Reevesville, where it connected with the cut-off, until that portion of the line was also abandoned in 1958. The Metropolis to Brookport IL portion was abandoned in 1981. That was the original route to Paducah via river ferry at Brookport, before the Metropolis Bridge was built in 1917. A couple of industries in Brookport kept the line alive until 1981.
All that remains of the line is a portion that runs through Marion servicing various industries. That is operated by the Crab Orchard and Egyptian RR, that connects with the BNSF and UP west of town. The Carbondale to Marion portion was abandoned by the CO&E, after purchase from the IC in the 1970's. So there's no longer any connection with the CN/IC.
CNW_4009It sounds like the district was a diagonal route?
For the most part yes. The district consisted of several branch lines that converged with the main at Carbondale. The most significant being the St. Louis line which ran sections of the Panama Limited and City of New Orleans up until Amtrak. There was also a St. Louis-Memphis train named The Chickasaw, that ran over this line.
Most of the other lines serviced coal mines. With the exception of a line that connected with the MoPac at Thebes IL. Also the Paducah line I mentioned in my previous reply.
At it's peak, Carbondale was much more than just the mainline.
I do not remember just what year it was, but the St. Louis-New Orleans coach on the City was discontinued before the spring of 1970, and IC tickets between St. Louis and Carbondale were accepeted on Gulf Transport buses. The St. Louis sleeper was still operated then. I intended spending a night on the St. Louis-New Orleans car after arriving from Detroit on the Cannonball--but it was delayed by a freight train that had broken in two (and before it was put back together apparently some helpful person passing by had stepped in between two cars and closed an anglecock), and the dogcatcher had to come for our crew because they had arrived in Detroit late the night before and were called out on short rest.
I should have been less specific saying the St. Louis trains lasted until Amtrak. It could've been in the preceding years. I know the IC did some combining and name changing of trains during that period. This was during my teenage years, and I really wasn't paying close attention to railroads at the time.
My best memory is a ride from St. Louis to Carbondale on The Chickasaw in June of 1965. A young conductor let my Dad and I stand in the rear vestibule as we pulled out of Union Station and crossed the MacArthur Bridge into Illinois. Still lots of action to see at that time. In a few years it would all be gone.
CNW_4009The magizine said that "Portions of the district were abandoned soon after it opened." Is the it refering to the Cutoff or the district?
I've had to do a little more research on this. It seems there were many divisions within southern Illinois on the IC. The Carbondale Division or District may have been misworded in the article. The article is most likely referring to the Marion Division. The Marion Division referred only to the line from Carbondale to Paducah. My reasoning behind this, is that the Paducah line was the only one that was directly affected with the completion of the cut-off. The "soon after" abandonment is questionable wording. My information is that freight service was withdrawn when the cut-off was completed in 1928. Passenger service remained until 1941. The 1941 date is well documented in area newspapers of the era. This was mainly due to far southern Illinois lacking a network of hard surfaced roads, until the mid 1930's. The line functioned as sort of a commuter service connecting the main communities in the region.
Once the passenger trains were removed, the track remained in place through World War II, and was abandoned in segments throughout the 1950's. So the "soon after" in the article isn't exactly accurate.
The main object of the cut-off was to reduce congestion on the mainline between Centralia and Cairo, and circumvent the winding track through the Shawnee hill country south of Carbondale. A side benefit was that it made the Paducah line redundant.
I think you may have the mistaken thought that the cut-off allowed for abandonment of portions of the mainline. It didn't. The mainline and the cut-off have coexisted with significant traffic on both lines continuing on to the present day. The only line that the cut-off rendered unneeded, was the Carbondale-Paducah line.
Here's further confirmation that the "Carbondale District" does indeed refer only to the Carbondale-Marion-Reevesville-Paducah line.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1450931
Ms. McPherson is probably the foremost rail historian for this part of the country.
I never learned Division names when I lived in Carbondale (1966-1978) --my bad-- but much attention was given to the C'dale - St. Louis branch, which carried the trains connecting to the mainline "City of New Orleans" and "Panama Limited," as well as the "City of Miami" and "Seminole," along with the trains that ran only from C'dale to Chicago for the students. Plenty of freights but I kick myself for not spending time in the C'dale yard, which is a ghost of its former self. Steve
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