Certain Soo Line diesel locomotives carried "WC" initials on their cabs: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1131320
Brian Schmidt, Editor, Classic Trains magazine
WC locomotives were in a different number series than Soo Line ones. They had the same paint scheme, though. They were all in the 2000 series.
http://thedieselshop.us/SooLine.HTML
In the case of Steam Locomotives ownership and numbering is slightly more complicated as a result of the 1932 Wisconsin Central Bankruptcy. The general rule still applies that any Soo Line locomotive numbered 2000 and above was a Wisconsin Central locomotive with the following exceptions
H-23 Pacifics (4-6-2) 2718 - 2723 were built new for Wisconsin Central by Alco(Sch) in 1923, were bought by the parent M,StP&SSM(Soo Line) in 1932 at the time of the bankruptcy of the WC Rwy and never returned.
N-20 Mountain (4-8-2) 4000 - 4003 were always owned by the parent M,StP&SSM while 4004 - 4020 belonged to the WC Rwy except for about a year after the the WC bankruptcy when the MStP&SSM purchased them due to concerns that the Bankruptcy Trustees were going to sell them off of the railroad to raise cash. After receiving written assurances from the Trustees they were returned to WC.
The newer Steam locomotives, Pacifics (classes H-3, H-22, and H-23), Mikados, and Mountains, were used as needed and were pooled between parent MStP&SSM and sibling WC Rwy. Because of their size and weight the O-20 Northern (4-8-4) 5000 - 5003 could only operate on the Minneapolis to Chicago mainline.
Back to the OP:
Per ICC Valuation Docket 406 (143-ICC-547; 143-ICC-673) the answer to both questions is yes, even when the stock was controlled by others they were still standing on their own. As stated by others, the distinctions slowly got blurred over time. (Assets, real property, track, locomotives, rolling stock)
Hi, My question remainS. It’s a cold night in January 1954. I’m the engineer in a Wisconsin Central GP 7 or RS1. Is it lettered Wisconsin central? There’s no Soo Line for another 7 years give or take. DSS&A had it’s own paint scheme. Did the WC?
That's actually easy. In 1954 the GP7s were in North Dakota, far from the WC. The WC owned none of the GP7s (375-378) and the RSs would depend on the numbering (350-353 Soo, 2360-2368 WC). The WC RS-1s would be in the black switcher scheme with Soo Line lettering except for a small WC on the cab. Most if not all of the WC RS1s were retired or sold before getting the post-merger scheme, but a couple of the old Soo RS1s got it.
A footnote - neither the RS1s nor the GP7s were delivered with MU, though the GP7s got it later. The only RS1s on the Soo Line with MU were ex-DSS&A. Short hood is front on GP7, long hood is front on RS1.
WC had its own board, even though it was often interlocked with Soo's. In 1954, after WC emerged from bankruptcy, WC's board forced dieselization by buying 21 GP9s and an SD9 along with a diesel shop at North Fond du Lac, a move which put all of the formerly joint costs for steam loco facilities on the Soo.
See if you can locate a copy of Wallace Abbey's "The Little Jewel" for a history of the Soo, WC and DSS&A from the 1940s to the 1980s.
Hi. Thanks. Sounds like before the merger there was a Soo which makes sense and WC was denoted by a WC on the cab.
Bruce
Bruce Frierdich Hi. Thanks. Sounds like before the merger there was a Soo which makes sense and WC was denoted by a WC on the cab. Bruce
The book "Wisconsin Central Railway - 1871-1909 Photo Archive" Edited by P.A. LeTourneau might answer some of your questions. I have it and it's a nice photobook....
https://www.amazon.com/Wisconsin-Central-Railway-1871-1909-Archive/dp/1882256786
This would be the time when WC engines, cars etc. were lettered for Wisconsin Central. After the Soo took over in 1909, the equipment would be lettered for the "old" Soo Line (Minneapolis, St.Paul & Sault Ste. Marie) Ry with WC sublettering and being in a different numbering series.
Note the sublettering "WC" and different numbering continued after 1961. When the Soo took over the MN&S in the early 1980's, they often ran the line with high nose GP-9s. Wisconsin Central units still had "WC" lettering on the short hood (you had to know where to look to see it) and different number series from the regular Soo GPs - even though the engines had clearly been relatively recently repainted.
Trivia: The "old" WC used wood passenger cars made of varnished, unpainted redwood. When the Soo took over the line, they liked the look of the cars so much they began painting their cars maroon to match the redwood color. Eventually, Canadian Pacific decided they liked it too and began using it as the color of their passenger cars.
CSSHEGEWISCH Bruce Frierdich Hi. Thanks. Sounds like before the merger there was a Soo which makes sense and WC was denoted by a WC on the cab. Bruce Not all that different from the relationship between CNO&TP, AGS, NO&NE, etc. on one hand and Southern on the other.
Johnny
According to Moody's Transportation Manual (1955 edition), the WC had 1042 miles of track operated with 896 miles owned and 145 miles of trackage rights. Comments from the Moodys:
"Wisconsin Central properties, which are operated by the Minneapolis, St. Paul, and Sault Ste. Marie RR, as agents for the company, include a 1042 mile system extending from Chicago to Minneapolis, St. Paul, Mnand into northern Wisconsin to Duluth, Superior, and Ashland on Lake Superior. Ashland is a large iron ore port. ..." (p 1265).
Further, tonnage in 1954 was broken down as follows: Agriculture 9.7%, Animals & products 2.2%, Products of Mines 28.3%, Products of Forests 18.7%, Mfg and Misc 40.2% Misc - the rest.
The carloadings for 1954 were 246,000 (roughly 673 cars per day). Carloadings were dropping in the 1950s, from 278,000 in 1950.
The 1954 revenue (ICC report) was $28,700,000 - the year which they were reorganized out of bankruptcy.
Lots of good dry data and reading in a Moodys Manual....these are on file at a University Library. I own several. Always good reference.
Ed
The WC participated in the iron ore business between the mines around Ironwood, MI and the ore dock at Ashland, WI
Deggesty CSSHEGEWISCH Bruce Frierdich Hi. Thanks. Sounds like before the merger there was a Soo which makes sense and WC was denoted by a WC on the cab. Bruce Not all that different from the relationship between CNO&TP, AGS, NO&NE, etc. on one hand and Southern on the other. Yup--you would find engines of the GS&F, AGS, NO&NE, CNO&TP, and Southern Railroad all over the Southern Railway System.
Yup--you would find engines of the GS&F, AGS, NO&NE, CNO&TP, and Southern Railroad all over the Southern Railway System.
Also LOP&G and C&NW ( not Chicago and Northwestern ) and NS for a while.
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