-Ken in Maryland (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)
nycstlrr...CSX came through my part of the BIG 4 and replaced all the former NYC signals and the last 2 B&O signals we had in town. The old Junction just looks like s**t now, with those new signals. Did you see evidence, where they are possibly replacing them?
The original B&O CPLs were replaced ~10yrs ago, what is there now are the ugly [IMHO] "Darth Vader" signals.
They may have gone to approach lighting, in which case the signals will be dark until a train is detected approaching.
Or not - I don't know if approach lighting is still used.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68They may have gone to approach lighting, in which case the signals will be dark until a train is detected approaching. Or not - I don't know if approach lighting is still used.
I know that [approach lighting] was what the B&O and Chessie did before the CSX takeover. Would CSX really reduce their costs significantly if they reverted to that practice? Doesn't seem like much to me...
tree68 They may have gone to approach lighting, in which case the signals will be dark until a train is detected approaching. Or not - I don't know if approach lighting is still used.
Seems to be a similar case South of Wichita, on lines round here. About 18 months ago(?) they went through putting in fiber optics for PTC, and replaced many of the signal stands and heads. They seem to be 'blank' until a train is in that block. At the old Mulvane Station there was a signal bridge (nee: AT&SF) across 4 tracks; they seemed to be relpacing the signal heads when those work crews were making the other enhancements to the signals.
Have heard that the use of approach lighting helps signal maintainers to trouble shoot certain problems/ Anyone know if so ? But have not seen any dark signals at any CP.
CSX_road_slugI know that [approach lighting] was what the B&O and Chessie did before the CSX takeover. Would CSX really reduce their costs significantly if they reverted to that practice? Doesn't seem like much to me...
Costs are costs. If the new lamps are LEDs, the gain in going with approach lighting is minimal, compared to incandenscent. Still, electricity costs money, and if you can knock a few bucks off the bill every month, for a bunch of signals, it adds up.
A single 50 watt bulb running for 24 hours straight is over a kilowatt. Granted, that's only 12 cents (US average cost), but, again, it adds up.
If they are going with solar, or other alternative power sources (see the recent Trains), less power used means the site can operate that much longer on said power.
Ok, it appears that CSX has started using approach lighting on their signals. My son mentioned that he had to stop for trains at Woodstock while driving to and from work today.
I'm still not 100% sure of the exact reason they did this, but it doesn't matter - at least now I know they are still actively using the Old Main Line! I was worried they had "downgraded" it.
I suspect they have been changed to approach lighting. While the savings with commercial power being operative is negligible. When commercial power fails (and it does) the signal system must continue to operate on batteries. All the power that can be saved means that the batteries will last that much longer. As we are seeing with the Matthew aftermath (and Sandy and other storms before) commercial power can be off for an extended periods of time. While generators can be brought in to power the systems - in reality, the generators are being used to charge the batteries, and generators run out of fuel. Everything that can be done to extend effective use of the available battery power is a step in making service more reliable.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
In addition to keeping the system working during disruptions as noted in a previous post, I suspect another significant savings would be increasing time between bulb failures. A darkened signal would severely disrupt the flow of traffic, and getting a signal maintainer out to change it wouldn't be cheap either.
CSX road slug (10-11):
You may be seeing approach lit signals now, but here in California at several places the signals are being changed to constantly lit.
View from Colton. CA. The curved track is the BNSF Connector, with the lower tracks the BNSF Transcon, the Sunset Route top containers on the Colton Flyover by the I-10 Freeway.
Take care,
K.P.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
CSX_road_slug nycstlrr ...CSX came through my part of the BIG 4 and replaced all the former NYC signals and the last 2 B&O signals we had in town. The old Junction just looks like s**t now, with those new signals. Did you see evidence, where they are possibly replacing them? The original B&O CPLs were replaced ~10yrs ago, what is there now are the ugly [IMHO] "Darth Vader" signals.
nycstlrr ...CSX came through my part of the BIG 4 and replaced all the former NYC signals and the last 2 B&O signals we had in town. The old Junction just looks like s**t now, with those new signals. Did you see evidence, where they are possibly replacing them?
Nope, Had all original B&O and NYC signals up until a few months ago. I ought to know, I live here. They may have been replaced around Greenwhich but not down here until a few months ago. Crestline still had all NYC, PRR signals. May still have, haven`t been over there for awhile.
K. P. Harrier CSX road slug (10-11): You may be seeing approach lit signals now, but here in California at several places the signals are being changed to constantly lit. View from Colton. CA. The curved track is the BNSF Connector, with the lower tracks the BNSF Transcon, the Sunset Route top containers on the Colton Flyover by the I-10 Freeway. Take care, K.P.
KP, are they signals at control points or also intermediates (number plated, non-controlled signals) too? I've noticed in my area, some control points still have all signals constantly lit. Others, once the preceeding block is occupied, will have signals on all tracks light up. Some will only have the signals on the track with the approaching train light up.
Jeff
jeffhergert K. P. Harrier CSX road slug (10-11): You may be seeing approach lit signals now, but here in California at several places the signals are being changed to constantly lit. View from Colton. CA. The curved track is the BNSF Connector, with the lower tracks the BNSF Transcon, the Sunset Route top containers on the Colton Flyover by the I-10 Freeway. Take care, K.P. KP, are they signals at control points or also intermediates (number plated, non-controlled signals) too? I've noticed in my area, some control points still have all signals constantly lit. Others, once the preceeding block is occupied, will have signals on all tracks light up. Some will only have the signals on the track with the approaching train light up. Jeff
To my mind, not lighting ALL appropriate signals at a Control Point is an invitation to a human error. In daylight you see all signals in the direction of travel (lit or not); at night if a signal is not lit it can become 'invisible' and potentially give the crew the thought that they are some place other than where they really are. Crews need to be given every opportunity to succeed at the job of safely and efficiently moving trains - not every opportunity to fail.
I first noticed approach-lit signals in 1954, when my mother was going to take the SAL afternoon northbound train at Camden, S.C. While waiting for the train, I looked down the track at the next signal, expecting to be able to see it go to approach as the northbound train approached--and saw that it was dark.
Johnny
NYC used them for years, I presume with minimal problems or they would have made them lit full time.
I may be wrong, but I'm presuming that a given signal will light up at least at the time a train hits the previous signal. Unless the line is arrow straight for miles (making the signals visible well beyond the next several), every signal a train approaches should already be lit.
I would also presume that an engineer should know where the next signal should be. There are rules for what to do if it is dark.
I would opine that interlocking signals probably should be lit all the time.
With some RRs going to approach lighting and some to constant lit might require more thought.
1. Power savings in northern clines subject to snow would probably need lens heaters to insure visable signals therefore power to light or more power used by lens heaters ?
2. Is it a correct understanding that PTC FRA specifications require the system to know that a signal light is working ?
3. If so then maybe different RRs ( or maybe just some subdivisions )are approaching that requirement protocol in different ways ? That way some might need approach lighting and others not ?.
The intermediate signals on the Metra Southwest line (ex-WAB) were approach lighted until recently. Recent upgrades to the line included extending the double track to Orland Park and installing CTC with both tracks being reverse signalled. Approach lighting was dropped at this time.
tree68I would opine that interlocking signals probably should be lit all the time.
I know of several interlockings that are approach lit. The one is the end of a yard, and when leaving the yard you have to get pretty close to the signals for them to light up. It's pretty neat as it lights up the yard tracks, and the two main tracks as well.
I'm not a fan of places where only "your" signal lights up and the other(s) remain dark. I like to see all the signals - even those not for my track. Feels weird otherwise.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Most of our signals on the east/west main have been changed to approach lit. One stretch that still has the exCNW signals remains constant lit. Including some new signals put in during a signal upgrade.
The north/south main seems to be a mixture, with the newest signals (from a few years back) being approach lit. It's harder to tell on this line, there's only a few spots where the second signal is in view.
Most of our approach lit signals light up when you immediately enter the block. There are a few where they don't light until you are about half way through. With our Automatic Train Control, it's better to know sooner rather than later what your next signal is, but it's no worse than coming around a curve and see you're going to get train control at the next signal. Constant lit doesn't help in those situations.
And in winter, the approach lit signals do fill with snow because they aren't on long enough to melt it.
CSX_road_slugI drive every day across the Woodstock Road crossing of CSX’s former B&O Old Main Line [Relay, MD to Point-Of-Rocks, MD], and normally the signals are lit in the red "stop" aspect – regardless of whether a train is coming or not. For the past week, however, I notice that the signals have been turned off. Does anybody have any info on why the OML signals have been darkened?
Two weeks ago the Westward Absolute Signal at East Hood, was constant lit. Last week it had been changed to approach lit.
blue streak 11. Power savings in northern clines subject to snow would probably need lens heaters to insure visable signals therefore power to light or more power used by lens heaters ?
This is a problem with LEDs, regardless of how they operate. Same thing happens to LED traffic lights and vehicle lights. Some do have heaters, as I recall.
tree68This is a problem with LEDs, regardless of how they operate. Same thing happens to LED traffic lights and vehicle lights. Some do have heaters, as I recall.
Those LED position lights Amtrak uses shine right through the snow pretty good. Things are very bright.
jeffhergert (10-12):
The Southern California UP signals in the last couple of years that are constantly lit are at CP’s, and are the new diode lights type. They generally pertain to a new facility.
Best,
There is a series of You Tube Videos [Part 1 through Part 6]
That is titled "How to read CSX Signals (SBD System)"
Here is the link to Part 1 @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xgSuvh28XI
I would admit that I am NOT a 'signals person' ( Beyond the red,green, and flashing yellow aspects) .
I found them interesting and informative; so I thought others here might also.
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