Trains.com

Trenton has moved!

2158 views
24 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2002
  • 21 posts
Trenton has moved!
Posted by sctroy on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 1:27 PM

I can't help but laugh - on the map on page 45 of the September issue of Trains, Trenton and Phillipsburg have been moved to Pennsylvania.  I guess the Delaware shifted position when I wasn't looking.

 

Steve Troy

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,276 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 3:11 PM

Well, Jersey Shore is in Pennsylvania.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Canterlot
  • 9,575 posts
Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 3:18 PM

sctroy

I can't help but laugh - on the map on page 45 of the September issue of Trains, Trenton and Phillipsburg have been moved to Pennsylvania.  I guess the Delaware shifted position when I wasn't looking.

 

Steve Troy

 

Trenton makes, Pennsylvania takes!

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: South Central,Ks
  • 7,170 posts
Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 6:26 PM

sctroy

"I can't help but laugh" - on the map on page 45 of the September issue of Trains, Trenton and Phillipsburg have been moved to Pennsylvania.  I guess the Delaware shifted position when I wasn't looking.

 

Steve Troy

 

      Me too, Steve:  Seems that TRAINS may have hired some of the Rand McNally Map making dudes!  LaughSmile, Wink & GrinLaugh   It used to be an inside joke among the Truck Driving Community...Each new edition brought about situations that effected our mileage pay {which generally was based on the R-M Household Movers Guides}.. Each year Dallas, or Memphis crawled closer, and closer together ! Whistling

[Bear in mind the 'points' from which those mileages were based were supposedly, fixed- Brass Placks, mounted in stone or concrete, as the specific point from which the measurements were taken; ( they could generally be placed at a point in vicinity of the Main Post office in each community) ]

I am sure some of our Surveyor/Engineer types, like Mudchicken or Paul North could come up with logical explanations as to how and why, suppposedly fixed points could 'move'.   Seasonal shrinkage of the road way???    [:^)  Bang Head

 

 

                                  

 

 


 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:25 PM

Sam, I believe that you are referring to benchmarks--which give the location and altitude fairly precisely. The only reason I can think of for moving one--which will render it void--is if the location is extremely disturbed, as in the destruction of the building (if it is on one). There is one at the front of the former UP station here. It seems to me that the first one I ever saw was at my grammar school.

MC can fill us in on more particulars.

Johnny

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,009 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 7:42 PM

Benchmarks aren't necessarily reference points for mileage between points - they're more a fixed point in three dimensions (lat, lon, and elevation).  And a fair sized town might have several.  

I think they usually use "downtown" for point-to-point measurements, but even that can be questionable.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 8:01 PM

 Is the zero mile post still at the White House in Washington? I wonder how often it is referred to in determining distances from point to point. 

The distance from the depot in my home town to the depot in the next town was 6.6 miles (ETT); the highway sign indicated that it was 7 miles.

Johnny

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 8:31 PM

zugmann
sctroy

I can't help but laugh - on the map on page 45 of the September issue of Trains, Trenton and Phillipsburg have been moved to Pennsylvania.  I guess the Delaware shifted position when I wasn't looking.

 

Steve Troy 

Trenton makes, Pennsylvania takes!

Steve, it was that last big flood which shifted the river channel . . . Whistling  Beside, George Washington was said to favor Bucks Co., PA over NJ.

Zug: "Trenton Makes - The World Takes": (collective civic inferiority complex ??)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Trenton_Bridge 

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 1,530 posts
Posted by NKP guy on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 9:12 PM

When this Ohio boy saw the "Trenton Makes" sign for the first time (c.1970), I was more than impressed; in fact I think I had goosebumps!

It struck me then that Trenton must be a proud manufacturing city (as well as state capital), proud of her citizens and their products.  The  massive sign implies that Trenton makes a bunch of different stuff, not just one major product (e.g. the steel city) and is important in the world's economy. 

I like that sign, especially at night, and I'm glad it's still there even though I'm sure it costs a lot to keep in good condition.  

 

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Tuesday, August 2, 2016 9:17 PM

I used to drive between two small towns.  Two lane county highway.  Going west the signage declared it was 4 miles to the other town, but going east the signage declared it was 3 miles back to the 1st town.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Allentown, PA
  • 9,810 posts
Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, August 4, 2016 9:43 PM

Books have been written about survey points moving and related phenomena - so consider just briefly:

  • Tectonic plate movement (San Andreas Fault) moves the points both horizontally and vertically a measureable amount each year. So do lots of other large-scale forces - magma displacement under volcanoes, glaciers melting, etc.
  • Robert A. LeMassena's wonderful essay "Numbers" from the 1980's.  What's the elevation of a mountain pass: What the highway dept. sign says, what the USGS monument says, what the RR profile says, etc. ?  Can they all be correct, even with different numerical values ? And to what tolerance/ precision ?  ("USGS good to a filecard's thickness")  Good intro to understanding the difference between accuracy and precision.
  • And his critique of E. M. Frimbo's lifetime mileage - something like X,XXX,XXX.52 miles.  Really ?  That last digit implies accuracy of 0.01 mile, ~53 ft.  Did Frimbo keep track of which end of the train where he got on/ off, let alone which end of the Pullman or coach ?

- Paul North.

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, August 5, 2016 5:03 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Books have been written about survey points moving and related phenomena - so consider just briefly:

Can't recall where I saw it, but recently read an article about Australia having to do some serious recalculation because the continent has moved and nothing is in it's correct position according to GPS.

Norm


  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: US
  • 25,276 posts
Posted by BaltACD on Friday, August 5, 2016 6:36 AM

Norm48327
Paul_D_North_Jr

Can't recall where I saw it, but recently read an article about Australia having to do some serious recalculation because the continent has moved and nothing is in it's correct position according to GPS.

And thus we have further proof of plate tectonics.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, August 5, 2016 6:57 AM

Norm48327
 
Paul_D_North_Jr
Books have been written about survey points moving and related phenomena - so consider just briefly:

 

Can't recall where I saw it, but recently read an article about Australia having to do some serious recalculation because the continent has moved and nothing is in it's correct position according to GPS.

 

I read an article about the same topic on BBC News website sometime last week.  The whole continent is moving northward at about one meter per year.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,009 posts
Posted by tree68 on Friday, August 5, 2016 8:03 AM

CSSHEGEWISCH
The whole continent is moving northward at about one meter per year.

Might make for some interesting discussions about where you built that fence....

On the other hand, it points up the need for physical landmarks from which everything else can be measured.  The entire continent may be moving, but I'm assuming that things on the continent aren't moving with relation to each other.

Could be interesting when it comes to lining up your auto GPS with the map overlay.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 573 posts
Posted by pajrr on Friday, August 5, 2016 8:09 AM

Simple explaination: Our NJ governor Christie is out of state so much that we don't need a state capital anymore. We sold it off.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, August 5, 2016 9:44 AM

pajrr

Simple explaination: Our NJ governor Christie is out of state so much that we don't need a state capital anymore. We sold it off.

Thumbs UpThumbs Up Big Smile

 

Norm


  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, August 5, 2016 10:40 AM

If a benchmark is moved by the action of an earthquake, is a new survey made to establish a new benchmark and the old one taken out?

Are meridians and bases re-established after an earthquake disturbs the surface?

Johnny

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • 4,190 posts
Posted by wanswheel on Friday, August 5, 2016 1:17 PM
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Friday, August 5, 2016 2:40 PM

CARTER LAKE – The area we know as Carter Lake was once called Cut-Off Island – a fitting name for a place torn between two cities and two states, yet connected to neither.

Iowa and Nebraska constantly battled for the city bordered by the new oxbow lake after the Missouri River changed its course in 1877. But to the stranded community on the west side of the river, neither Council Bluffs nor Omaha wanted Carter Lake for anything more than its tax revenue.....

“It was really a no-man’s land: Dogfighting, cockfighting, boxing matches,” Roenfeld said. “Some unsavory things went on there.”

What began with one man’s idea of building a floating bar in the lake to flout laws of both states eventually grew into a border town rife with vice: From alcohol, especially after Iowa repealed Prohibition before its western neighbor, to gambling of all sorts...

http://www.nonpareilonline.com/news/carter-lake-s-colorful-confusing-history/article_45d603ec-338f-5a45-9bb9-1843542ae556.html

Does Pennsylvania offer lower taxes and more lenient liquor laws? 

  • Member since
    August 2005
  • From: At the Crossroads of the West
  • 11,013 posts
Posted by Deggesty on Friday, August 5, 2016 3:04 PM

Carter Lake, Iowa--you can't get there by land without going through Nebraska.

Point Roberts, Washington--you can't get therre by land without going through British Columbia. Imagine going through customs twice a day as you go to and from work. There was an item in the Saturday Evening Post many years ago, which told that school children crossed Canada twice a day to get to and from school.

Going between Victoria and Vancouver by ferry, you cross the United States. However, there is no worry about customs.

Johnny

  • Member since
    April 2007
  • From: Iowa
  • 3,293 posts
Posted by Semper Vaporo on Friday, August 5, 2016 3:41 PM

I understand the official location of the Washington Monument in DC was "corrected" a few years ago, with the advent of GPS.

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • 3,231 posts
Posted by NorthWest on Friday, August 5, 2016 4:09 PM

Deggesty
Point Roberts, Washington--you can't get therre by land without going through British Columbia. Imagine going through customs twice a day as you go to and from work. There was an item in the Saturday Evening Post many years ago, which told that school children crossed Canada twice a day to get to and from school.

It isn't a problem, though, even with the additional security of the past few years. Everyone has a Nexus pass and simply rolls through the border checkpoint. There are plenty of people in the continental US here that work in Canada, and Canadians that work down here. Everyone just plans around the border like they plan around the weather.

  • Member since
    July 2016
  • 2,631 posts
Posted by Backshop on Friday, August 5, 2016 4:33 PM

Most maps put out by the major publishers have built in intentional (minor) mistakes on them.  The mapmaker keeps track of them.  Since a map is a map, they can tell who is using their map without permission.  I read this decades ago and it makes sense.

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Southeast Michigan
  • 2,983 posts
Posted by Norm48327 on Friday, August 5, 2016 4:40 PM

Johny,

There's also Angle Inlet, MN. To get there you must drive through Manitoba.

Norm


Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy