From the existing Thread "Abandoned Rails..." I found the following posts of Nov.8,2015: From that Thread :"...Posted by bn13814 on Thursday, November 08, 2012 10:01 PM
SALfan What is NS doing with West Tennessee RR and CN? Where is WTRR? Is CN the former IC? Thanks for the info. bn13814 said:
"...NS is funding track upgrades on WTNN between Fulton, KY and Corinth, MS to handle new overhead traffic as part of the Mid America Corridor Initiative with CN (ex-IC)..." [and he included the following links:]
http://0339.utu.org/UTU_Web/Default.aspx?PageID=1034
http://www.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/pdf/CN_NS.pdf
The two linked pieces [see above] were quite interesting to myself, as a former resident of the North Miss, and West Tenn areas. The WTNN was pieced together as a short-line to serve mostly the agricultural, and some other manufacturing operations in the area of NW Tenn out of a former ICRR line between Fulton,Ky, Dyersburg,Tn and Jackson, Tn. in the middle 1980's [see linked site @ http://www.wtnnrr.com/about.html
The former ICRR line south out of Jackson,Tn, (via Water Valley,Ms.) to Grenada Miss area was originally the home division for " The Casey Jones".
Not completely sure of the dates, but sometime in the 1990's the ICRR turned over some "trackage authority' (?) to the NS to get into the Jackson,Tn. area. That line crosses several other railroads (CSX, and at Middleton,Tn NS line between Memphis,Tn and Sheffield,Al. and the BNSF at Holly Sprngs,Ms. ( Their line between Memphis and Amory,Ms (Div PT.?) and on to Birmingham,Al.
Also at the Corinth,Ms area the ICRR and the GM&O crossed,[ I'm not sure how much of that latter line is left? } But it originally went all the way to the Guif Coast.
The inclusion of that spur off the NS's "Mid-America Corridor" would seem to offer any number of options to traffic planners at NS ?
Just my thoughts on thse possibilities, but it would all seem to hinge on how much track is still in place along the route.
samfp1943Not completely sure of the dates, but sometime in the 1990's the ICRR turned over some "trackage authority' (?) to the NS to get into the Jackson,Tn. area. That line crosses several other railroads (CSX, and at Middleton,Tn NS line between Memphis,Tn and Sheffield,Al. and the BNSF at Holly Sprngs,Ms. ( Their line between Memphis and Amory,Ms (Div PT.?) and on to Birmingham,Al. Also at the Corinth,Ms area the ICRR and the GM&O crossed,[ I'm not sure how much of that latter line is left? } But it originally went all the way to the Guif Coast. The inclusion of that spur off the NS's "Mid-America Corridor" would seem to offer any number of options to traffic planners at NS ? Just my thoughts on thse possibilities, but it would all seem to hinge on how much track is still in place along the route.
I found the above very confusing. I moved to Holly Springs about 6 years ago and have visited the nice little museum in the former Nc&StL depot at Jackson TN. Jackson was once served by at least three major railroads, but this will address only the IC and GM&O both oriented basically North-South, and both with two lines south of Jackson. All of these crossed the Southern's former Memphis & Charleston (Civil War era name) line and those crossings are the best way to sort them out. The OP's implication that this new route crosses the CSX, and BNSF between Corinth MS and Jackson TN is incorrect.
The line through Holly Springs was built as the Mississippi Central between Jackson TN and Grenada MS and was completed just before the Civil War. It crossed the M&C at Grand Junction and would become the supply line in Grant's campaign against Vicksburg of 1862. After the war and until about 1900, it was the IC's only through line from Chicago to New Orleans which is why our little town has a huge brick 1880's passenger station that is still standing.
The Civil War era Mobile and Ohio extended from Columbus KY, on the Ohio River, south toward Mobile. At the start of the war the M&O was complete from Columbus for some distance south of JacksonTN and Corinth MS. It crossed the M&C at Corinth. Corinth was Grant's objective when he was attacked by the Confederates at Shilohearly in 1862. Grant went on to capture Corinth, severing both the M&O and M&C. The Federals controlled Corinth for the duration of the war. This line is now operated by the KCS and crosses the NS in downtown Corinth.
After the war the M&O absorbed a parallel competitor that crossed the M&C at Middleton, 17 miles east of Grand Junction. This line is now mostly abandoned but some of it operates today as a short line north of New Albany MS connecting with the BNSF, which runs southeast from Memphis to Birmingham.
Also after the war the IC established a line between Jackson TN and Birmingham. This line also crossed the M&C (Southern) at Corinth.
The WTNN operates out of Islen, which is the former GM&O yard and shop on the southeast side of Jackson. That implies that the line acquired by NS is the former GM&O. The problem is that there is no connection between the NS and the KCS at the Corinth crossing, which I have seen myself. I suspect that at Corinth the switch in the NS (which I have not seen) connects with the former IC line somewhere west of the former GM&O (now KCS diamond) and that somewhere between Corinth and Islen someone connected the IC Birmingham line to the former GM&O line to provide access to Islen.
IC, GM&O and Southern Station designations are all per April 1956 Official Guide.
The current project would provide the CN and NS a shortcut around Memphis and avoid two yards and a trasfer move in the process. North gateways would be St Louis and Chicago. The route would provide direct access to Birmingham, Chattanooga, Atlanta and points South and East.
Mac McCulloch
PNWRMNM samfp1943 Not completely sure of the dates, but sometime in the 1990's the ICRR turned over some "trackage authority' (?) to the NS to get into the Jackson,Tn. area. That line crosses several other railroads (CSX, and at Middleton,Tn NS line between Memphis,Tn and Sheffield,Al. and the BNSF at Holly Sprngs,Ms. ( Their line between Memphis and Amory,Ms (Div PT.?) and on to Birmingham,Al. Also at the Corinth,Ms area the ICRR and the GM&O crossed,[ I'm not sure how much of that latter line is left? } But it originally went all the way to the Guif Coast. The inclusion of that spur off the NS's "Mid-America Corridor" would seem to offer any number of options to traffic planners at NS ? Just my thoughts on thse possibilities, but it would all seem to hinge on how much track is still in place along the route. I found the above very confusing. I moved to Holly Springs about 6 years ago and have visited the nice little museum in the former Nc&StL depot at Jackson TN. Jackson was once served by at least three major railroads, but this will address only the IC and GM&O both oriented basically North-South, and both with two lines south of Jackson. All of these crossed the Southern's former Memphis & Charleston (Civil War era name) line and those crossings are the best way to sort them out. The OP's implication that this new route crosses the CSX, and BNSF between Corinth MS and Jackson TN is incorrect. The line through Holly Springs was built as the Mississippi Central between Jackson TN and Grenada MS and was completed just before the Civil War. It crossed the M&C at Grand Junction and would become the supply line in Grant's campaign against Vicksburg of 1862. After the war and until about 1900, it was the IC's only through line from Chicago to New Orleans which is why our little town has a huge brick 1880's passenger station that is still standing. The Civil War era Mobile and Ohio extended from Columbus KY, on the Ohio River, south toward Mobile. At the start of the war the M&O was complete from Columbus for some distance south of JacksonTN and Corinth MS. It crossed the M&C at Corinth. Corinth was Grant's objective when he was attacked by the Confederates at Shilohearly in 1862. Grant went on to capture Corinth, severing both the M&O and M&C. The Federals controlled Corinth for the duration of the war. This line is now operated by the KCS and crosses the NS in downtown Corinth. After the war the M&O absorbed a parallel competitor that crossed the M&C at Middleton, 17 miles east of Grand Junction. This line is now mostly abandoned but some of it operates today as a short line north of New Albany MS connecting with the BNSF, which runs southeast from Memphis to Birmingham. Also after the war the IC established a line between Jackson TN and Birmingham. This line also crossed the M&C (Southern) at Corinth. The WTNN operates out of Islen, which is the former GM&O yard and shop on the southeast side of Jackson. That implies that the line acquired by NS is the former GM&O. The problem is that there is no connection between the NS and the KCS at the Corinth crossing, which I have seen myself. I suspect that at Corinth the switch in the NS (which I have not seen) connects with the former IC line somewhere west of the former GM&O (now KCS diamond) and that somewhere between Corinth and Islen someone connected the IC Birmingham line to the former GM&O line to provide access to Islen. IC, GM&O and Southern Station designations are all per April 1956 Official Guide. The current project would provide the CN and NS a shortcut around Memphis and avoid two yards and a trasfer move in the process. North gateways would be St Louis and Chicago. The route would provide direct access to Birmingham, Chattanooga, Atlanta and points South and East. Mac McCulloch
samfp1943 Not completely sure of the dates, but sometime in the 1990's the ICRR turned over some "trackage authority' (?) to the NS to get into the Jackson,Tn. area. That line crosses several other railroads (CSX, and at Middleton,Tn NS line between Memphis,Tn and Sheffield,Al. and the BNSF at Holly Sprngs,Ms. ( Their line between Memphis and Amory,Ms (Div PT.?) and on to Birmingham,Al. Also at the Corinth,Ms area the ICRR and the GM&O crossed,[ I'm not sure how much of that latter line is left? } But it originally went all the way to the Guif Coast. The inclusion of that spur off the NS's "Mid-America Corridor" would seem to offer any number of options to traffic planners at NS ? Just my thoughts on thse possibilities, but it would all seem to hinge on how much track is still in place along the route.
I do not remember the names of the various roads that composed the Gulf Mobile &Northern, but it was the third road in Jackson, Tennessee--it eventually operated between Jackson and Slidell, Louisiana, and entered the Crescent City via trackage rights on the NO&NE, and entered Mobile on its own track..
Johnny
Johnny,
According to Stover's History of the Illinois Central, it was the Gulf Mobile and Northern that crossed the SOU at Middleton. It and the Mobile and Ohio merged in 1940 to create the GM&O which acquired the Alton in 1947 which created the configuration of the GM&O that was taken over by the IC.
Mac
Thanks, Mac. I knew the fairly recent history of the GM&O, but did not recall the dates of the acquisitions.
When I lived in Reform, Alabama, I knew a retired M&O/GM&O station agent, the then current Reform & Gordo agent, and the local section foreman.
PNWRMNM Also after the war the IC established a line between Jackson TN and Birmingham. This line also crossed the M&C (Southern) at Corinth. The WTNN operates out of Islen, which is the former GM&O yard and shop on the southeast side of Jackson. That implies that the line acquired by NS is the former GM&O. The problem is that there is no connection between the NS and the KCS at the Corinth crossing, which I have seen myself. I suspect that at Corinth the switch in the NS (which I have not seen) connects with the former IC line somewhere west of the former GM&O (now KCS diamond) and that somewhere between Corinth and Islen someone connected the IC Birmingham line to the former GM&O line to provide access to Islen. Mac McCulloch
The relationship of the GM&O and IC lines between Jackson and Corinth has bothered me so I finally looked on Google Earth. I found no evidence of an IC line parallelling the GM&O, but did find a line lying north and EAST of downtown Corinth that I think was the IC to Birmingham. It looks like IC used trackage rights on the M&O line to a point some 1-2 miles geographic north of Corinth from which the IC built a new line headed south and east which crossed over the Southern main track.
Today there is a connection between the NS westward and the IC northward, which then joins the M&O northward. Also there was a connection at the downtown depot from the SOU westward to GM&O northward, but it was sharp. This would be 10 MPH at best today and putting a long train trhough it would tie up almost every crossing in town. New connection is much better.
If I had the SPV Atlas of Mississippi here, I could get the exact routing of the IC's line to Birmingham. As it is, I just have the names of the junctions on the way to Birmingham. After Carbondale, the first junction (with the M&O/GM&O) is Perry which, as I recall, is just below Jackson, Tennessee. Perry is 3.1 miles from Frogmore on the original main line. The next junction (with IC's line towards Birmingham) is Ruslor Jct--I think it was just below Corinth, though it may have been above Corinth. I think that the IC's line between Ruslor Jct. and Haleyville (where it connected with the Northern Alabama ((Southern))) has been abandoned. IC's entrance into Birmingham was over the Frisco from Jasper on in. Incidentally, that portion of the NA had ATS, apparently for the benefit of the IC.
Maybe the above will help.
Deggesty If I had the SPV Atlas of Mississippi here, I could get the exact routing of the IC's line to Birmingham. As it is, I just have the names of the junctions on the way to Birmingham. After Carbondale, the first junction (with the M&O/GM&O) is Perry which, as I recall, is just below Jackson, Tennessee. Perry is 3.1 miles from Frogmore on the original main line. The next junction (with IC's line towards Birmingham) is Ruslor Jct--I think it was just below Corinth, though it may have been above Corinth. I think that the IC's line between Ruslor Jct. and Haleyville (where it connected with the Northern Alabama ((Southern))) has been abandoned. IC's entrance into Birmingham was over the Frisco from Jasper on in. Incidentally, that portion of the NA had ATS, apparently for the benefit of the IC. Maybe the above will help.
Johnny( deggesty): Going to try and print a copy of an ICRR/Historical Society Map ( pre-1967) on Here..Hope this works ! ....
It will provide some answers for you(Hopefully!) [Just click on the map,in reply mode, it should allow you to view it in an area enlarged version (?)]
Thanks, Sam. The IC had about the best map of its lines to be found in almost any public passenger timetable.
I see that I was right about the location of Frogmoor--but there is insufficient detail to show if Ruslor Jct. is above or below Corinth. As I think about it, I am inclined to say that it was below Corinth. As it is now, Ruslor Jct.'s location is a moot point; NS can take the NA from Birmingham to the Muscle Shoals area, go west to Corinth and then north.
I just discovered caltopo.com which provides Google Earth like navagation to at least the continental US using USGS 7.5" maps. Very nice!
It shows Ruslor Junction to be about two miles north of Corinth.
Thanks, Mac.
a. I haven't been through there since the spring of 1970, on a late nb City of Miami.
b. All of my IC ETT's are just over two miles from where I am, and I did not want to ask my daughter to look for them. Since I use a wheelchair or walker to get around, it ould be difficult for me to get home, especially since it is about 800 feet higher in elevation than where I am.
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