Shipping the most precious commodity

[Murphy Siding]

   I was going to mention Soylent Green, but I don't know how many people would make the connection.

     As I read about passenger trains and the good old days, the picture being painted is pretty consistent, warm and fuzzy.  The railroads all put their best foot forward to pull out all the stops in getting passengers to ride their trains, and not those of the competition.  Sleepers, fine dining, observations cars, etc. are always talked about.  Heck, if you were to believe some of the advertising, it apprears one line gave you a pillow and a kitten for your sleeper.


      To be honest, it all sounds  really neat, but it raises some questions.....

Were passenger fares regulated the same way that freight rates were?

Were there other, not so fine options for the railroad experience?  Like the airlines' stuff them in like sardines system?

Was there price competition for passenger business?

[PNWRMNM]

Murphy,

Yes, passenger fares were regulated starting about the same time as freight rates.

Coach was the basic service offering going back to day 1.

Sleeper cars, which came to be dominated by Pullman were introduced after the Civil War.

Diners were added to selected premier trains starting about 1880.

The "last class" sevice was "emmigrant cars" starting to the best of my knowledge again shortly after the Civil War. I think some emmigrant cars were simply coaches with unpadded seats, while some seem to have been mixed freight and passengers in which a family would load all their stuff and ride west, cooking their own grub on the built in stove. My understanding is that emigrant cars usually operated as the second passenger train on the main lines and probably in local freight service if a branch line was involved.

There was price competition until prevented by government regulation, see item 1.

Mac

 

[MidlandMike]

In the old days they also had tourist sleeprs.  I guess the modern equivalent was the slumbercoach.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

"The view of the viaduct from in front of the diner - coach travel on the Erie" by Hilton, George W., from Trains, May 1972, pg. 20 &etc.

 

An entertaining recollection of train travel for those who couldn't afford Pullman - PDN.

 

There was a particular term for the kind of car that Mac is describing, but I can't remember it at the moment.   

[Paul of Covington]

ChessieCat123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD8GtIOxxJU Perlman @ 19:56

 

    In the 7th minute of this link they mention an experimental atomic switch lamp that is self-powered and would last for twelve years.   Does anyone know anything about this?

[wanswheel]

 

Excerpt from New York Central Headlight magazine, June 1957

The research center is studying a new  type of atomic switch lamp which will burn brightly for 12 years without fuel or maintenance. The lamp is filled with krypton isotope 85 gas which reacts with a phosphor coating on the glass to produce a self-luminous glow. If such lamps grow weak, they can be returned to their brightness merely by refilling them with the krypton isotope. Tritium, another radioactive material is also being investigated as a similar source of lamp energy.

 

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/headlight/images/headlight-0657.pdf

 

http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/modern-railroads-1160.pdf

[54light15]

Krypton? Don't tell Superman! He won't be able to keep the Special from going off that collapsed bridge if any of them lights are around.

[Paul of Covington]

   Thanks, Wanswheel.   That brings back memories of the innocent optimism about the future of atomic power in the fifties.   I still remember Eisenhauer talking about "atoms for peace."

[Wizlish]

Paul of Covington

... they mention an experimental atomic switch lamp that is self-powered and would last for twelve years.

Not only a NYC phenomenon...

http://www.newspapers.com/clip/2521970/krypton85_powered_railroad_signal/

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Wizlish

 

Paul of Covington

... they mention an experimental atomic switch lamp that is self-powered and would last for twelve years.

 Not only a NYC phenomenon...

http://www.newspapers.com/clip/2521970/krypton85_powered_railroad_signal/

http://www.newspapers.com/clip/2521970/krypton85_powered_railroad_signal/

In one of his 1960's - 70's columns, John Kneiling derided the atomic switch lamp as being one of the few research projects sponsored by the AAR, because it was non-controversial and wouldn't upset the status quo - quite the opposite of most of his proposals !

- Paul North.

[schlimm]

PNWRMNM

There was price competition until prevented by government regulation, see item 1.

When Paul Reistrup was in charge of passenger services on the B&O, he experimented with flexible (demand-based) fares, as I recall in the late 1960s.

[Murphy Siding]

schlimm

 

 

PNWRMNM

There was price competition until prevented by government regulation, see item 1.

 

 

When Paul Reistrup was in charge of passenger services on the B&O, he experimented with flexible (demand-based) fares, as I recall in the late 1960s.

 

 How would that work in the regulated era?  Was something like you could do it, but only if your rates were published?

[Murphy Siding]

Paul of Covington

 

 

ChessieCat123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD8GtIOxxJU Perlman @ 19:56

 

 

 

 

    In the 7th minute of this link they mention an experimental atomic switch lamp that is self-powered and would last for twelve years.   Does anyone know anything about this?

 

 It sounds like it was a better idea than the atomic toilet. 

[AgentKid]

Murphy Siding

Were there other, not so fine options for the railroad experience? Like the airlines' stuff them in like sardines system?

I recall reading that until the Boeing 707's came on the scene that under modern day consumer protection laws airlines would not be able to operate. In the era of piston engine powered passenger service if you flew over a certain amount of distance it was a statisical certainty that you would die in a crash.

As for "emmigrant class" on the CPR, it was a well kept secret that emmigrant class and second class service were the same thing in the same cars. During the days of Canada being part of the British Empire it was promoted as emmigrant class to European homesteaders coming to Canada, but second class to British homesteaders. "We are NOT emmigrants, We are British Subjects!"

Bruce

 

[Deggesty]

Bruce, was there not also a colonial class, wherein the passengers provided their own bedding? Or was this the emigrant class?

[AgentKid]

Deggesty

Bruce, was there not also a colonial class, wherein the passengers provided their own bedding? Or was this the emigrant class?

 

Yes, service was provided in Colonist cars. This service was for homesteaders. There was coach service and of course First Class sleeper service as well.

Bruce

 

[wanswheel]

[AgentKid]

Mike, that second picture is one of those photos from my school days that is burned into my memory banks so deep it will never leave. I will be up now trying to remember who those people were. It was an ethnic group displaced from eastern Europe.

Bruce

 

[samfp1943]

[quote user="AgentKid"]

 

 

Murphy Siding

Were there other, not so fine options for the railroad experience? Like the airlines' stuff them in like sardines system?

 

 

I recall reading that until the Boeing 707's came on the scene that under modern day consumer protection laws airlines would not be able to operate. In the era of piston engine powered passenger service if you flew over a certain amount of distance it was a statisical certainty that you would die in a crash.

As for "emmigrant class" on the CPR, it was a well kept secret that emmigrant class and second class service were the same thing in the same cars. During the days of Canada being part of the British Empire it was promoted as emmigrant class to European homesteaders coming to Canada, but second class to British homesteaders. "We are NOT emmigrants, We are British Subjects!"

Bruce

 

 

[/quote]

The following linked article @  http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/emigranttrain.htm

It is a re-counting of part of the account wirtten by Robert Louis Stevenson in 1877 of his travel from East to West via railroad connections. The Emigrant Train was a pretty 'gritty' accomodation.  

This link shows a drawing of the specifications for an Emigrant Berth on a car built in Sacramento for CPRR @   http://cprr.org/Museum/Car_Builders_Dictionary/index.html

[wanswheel]

The bed looks relatively comfortable, if you got the pep to climb up there.

http://collection.mccord.mcgill.ca/en/collection/artifacts/II-96449.A?Lang=1&accessnumber=II-96449.A

[BaltACD]

wanswheel

The bed looks relatively comfortable, if you got the pep to climb up there.

http://collection.mccord.mcgill.ca/en/collection/artifacts/II-96449.A?Lang=1&accessnumber=II-96449.A

Looking at the berth dimensions in the drawing for the emigrant sleeper - if you were taller than 5'8" you weren't going to be able to stretch out.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

AgentKid

Mike, that second picture is one of those photos from my school days that is burned into my memory banks so deep it will never leave. I will be up now trying to remember who those people were. It was an ethnic group displaced from eastern Europe.

Bruce 

Doukhobors:

 http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/doukhobors/ 

A few humorous paragraphs about them in this article:

"The Crow and the Kettle - Canadian Pacific's other crossing of the Continental Divide" by Emmott, N. W., from Trains, May 1968, pg. 37 &etc.  (keywords: british canada columbia CPR mountain pass )

- Paul North. 

 

[AgentKid]

Paul_D_North_Jr

Doukhobors

Thank you, Paul. Now I can quit wondering about it.

Bruce

 

[Murphy Siding]

Paul_D_North_Jr

 

AgentKid

Mike, that second picture is one of those photos from my school days that is burned into my memory banks so deep it will never leave. I will be up now trying to remember who those people were. It was an ethnic group displaced from eastern Europe.

Bruce 

 

 

Doukhobors:

 

 http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/doukhobors/ 

A few humorous paragraphs about them in this article:

"The Crow and the Kettle - Canadian Pacific's other crossing of the Continental Divide" by Emmott, N. W., from Trains, May 1968, pg. 37 &etc.  (keywords: british canada columbia CPR mountain pass )

- Paul North. 

 

 

   "Radical pacifism"  now there's a phrase you don't just slip into a conversation now and then.


      I've been told that a couple of my ancestors road from New York to northwestern Nebraska with nothing to eat but the little bit of food they carried with them.  They only spoke Norweigan, and didn't want to make a scene.

Great-great grandpa:  "How was your trip?"

Great-great uncle Enoch: "Good.  What's for dinner?"

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Murphy, get hold of that article and read it.  Among other inconsistencies, the supposed "pacifists" apparently liked to blow up a CP monument of some kind whenever there was unrest about something.  (  Maybe they were just early E. Hunter Harrison haters ?!?) 

- Paul North.