I watch the video of the "diamond" at Rochelle Illinois on a regular basis. I know that the diamonds must be maintained regularly. What sort of repairs are made?
There is not a material that can be commercially made that can take the impact abuse of 110-135 ton cars constantly beating on it for very long as wheels transit the flangeways and jump the 2 1/2" x 1 7/8" gap. the sharper the crossing angle, the worse it gets.
Very common for explosive hardened manganese frogs to fail at the point or corner of the side of a casting. Chunks up to 8"long to 2" deep break off and you have to lay welding bead back in the hole to beef up the failed casting to match the original profile. You have to lay the bead back in the hole with no gaps or holidays - otherwise you have instant failure ....welder has to also be careful about overheating the material he is adding bead to for fear of making it weaker (less mechanically strong and changing the metallurgical properties)
Making a frog out of machined carbon steel (rail sections, heavilly machined, planed and mitred...then bolted together) is an even worse solution...Old way, more prone to failure.
Those darned shiny things with wheels beat the living crap out of them. Frequency of repair and welders taking up residence on the crossing frogs is largely a function of size, age, speed and tonnage over the crossing.
Rochelle's crossing frogs are all rail bound manganese cast inserts with explosive hardened original castings. They probably have a 5 year or less lifespan - even shorter if the welding repairs or surfacing/drainage is lacking.
Seems like a lot of arc-welding build-up going on today and yesterday. As MC says, a careful dance between adding material and not altering the molecular structure of what's already there.
Several months ago, the magazine had a good article on diamonds and what a constant maintenance headache they are. It just reinforces what we see on the webcam.
Just as an aside, and a question for MC, I am guessing that the welding rods in use on the diamonds are not the more garden-variety rods you would get at your local welder's supply house.
In addition to the actual costs of the maintenance and repair work itself, and the cost of replacement of the diamonds and reconstruction of the entire crossing structure at more or less regular intervals, there's either the 'opportunity cost' of lost capacity - on both lines ! - from trains waiting or delayed while the welder works, or a lot of waiting time by the welder for the trains to clear on both lines.
Add in the same costs of the waiting time/ delays of the trains while the trains of the other line use the crossing - the busier the crossing, the greater are those costs - and you start to get a pretty good business case for elimination/ separation (i.e., a flyover !) / rerouting of the crossing to avoid all that.
- Paul North.
Why don't they make a drop-in replaceable frog or point or whatever is best to replace as a whole. Cast, harden and finish them off-site, undo some bolts, pull the worn one out, slide in the new one and torque the bolts down... done.
I understand the amount of beating these things take and I am sure a "drop-in" replacement cannot be just bolted down with some flimsly alignment bars (fish plates) and may require a machined slot in the rail beyond/outside the replaceable parts that would ensure alignment and rigidity/strength, but that has got to be cheaper and safer than constant welding and hoping the welder does a perfect job every time. It could possibly be done faster than the present constant welding.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
During 1992 I went to watch a Presidential Train run by CSX northward through Ohio as part of George H W Bush's unsuccessful bid for a second term.
The day before I visted Fostoria and the diamonds there were being welded up on the track the POTUS train was to run, just making sure, I guess.
I saw him on the rear platform on the day...
Friends who were strongly Democrat asked why I bothered. The answer was "how often do they run a Presidential Train?"
M636C
Semper VaporoWhy don't they make a drop-in replaceable frog or point or whatever is best to replace as a whole. Cast, harden and finish them off-site, undo some bolts, pull the worn one out, slide in the new one and torque the bolts down... done.
After a fashion, they do. a complete diamond is assembled, then dropped into place as a whole. Sometimes you'll see pictures of a diamond with the "spare" sitting off to the side (or maybe it's the old one...).
Someone else will have to comment on whether the old diamond can be somehow renewed, or if they simply have to build a new one.
Given the beating diamonds take, I'm not sure it would be possible to have a drop-in (bolt-in) replacement. You'd probably have to have someone out there between every train re-tightening the bolts...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Semper does not quite understand a rail bound manganese frog, especially the frog cast insert. (As close as it gets to a drop-in solution)...Anything just lying in there loose is gonna be destroyed in a heartbeat.
None of these things is an off the shelf solution. When I had crossing frogs on my territory (16 in LA), we renewed the crossing and ordered a 5th insert (with the Division Engineer's blessing - He beat off the accounting clowns in the operating dept. back east whining about the expsense)...Santa Fe's welders in SoCal were very skilled at fabricating additional custom binder rail pieces...we built a frog and rail fabricating and repair stand work surface in our section house/ MOW Yard and constantly kept the oddball frog pieces ready.
Rarely are crossing frog angles similar, the same or 90 degrees.
If there is ANY service life in the old crossing frog, it will be stored in the weeds just in case there is a derailment or the operating department comes up with some new way to destroy a crossing frog. You are not going to see a replacement of a diamond overnight. (remember the UP/BNSF (MoP/SLSF) incident at river Junction in the Missori bootheel that also took out a road overpass?)
New crossing frogs are going for $160K to $225K these days. Another reason in the long list of why you avoid diamond$.
Back in the day, the Rock Island was 4 track, and there were 16 diamonds at Joliet station.
I recall movable point frogs on the diamonds at Kensington, it definitely reduced the noise (and presumably the wear) when IC or South Shore trains passed over them.
I also recall when some UP SD70M's got away and took out one of the diamonds at 21st Street a couple of years ago. It was several months before that diamond was replaced and the track restored to service.
I doubt that movable-point frogs would be an option for Rochelle. Kensington (and Western Avenue, which also has some) have switches in connection with the control points; Rochelle does not, so this would add a need for a plant that currently has nothing that moves.I know that the surroundings make it difficult, but would a grade separation be feasible here? If so, I'd think BNSF would be the logical one to go over UP.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRRI know that the surroundings make it difficult, but would a grade separation be feasible here? If so, I'd think BNSF would be the logical one to go over UP.
Three grade crossings and an overpass to the east and one grade crossing to the west would make me shudder at the thought of going with a flyover. Actually, those numbers apply to both lines. Also, it looks like the added "footprint" required would be expensive. I would be interested to hear what Mud or Paul might add to that discussion.
Definitely it would be an interesting cost/benefit study for the technical corps.
This probably would not work for heavy mainline railroads - but a interesting way to avoid having a diamond. But how much maintaince with with this method.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UcbflOnffg
Steve
Also, don't forget the BNSF link to the industrial park that diverges from their ROW to run alongside the UP ROW. The BNSF ROW is bordered on both sides by homes and an electrical plant and other strucures that would make it difficult to build a parallel flyover. Same for the UP. If you look at the sattelite image on Google maps, you can see how hard it would be to build a flyover and maintain service on the ROW. I expect it would be next to impossible to obtain the land to build shoo flys to use during construction.
With the constrictions in town, it would likely be cheaper for UP/BNSF to fund a bypass for one of the lines (likely the Burlington BNSF) around Rochelle with an elevated section over the other railroad and a few key roadways than to build an overpass in town. Properly built, the bypassing main could probably keep mainline speed throughout.
What are the best and worse angles of incidences for wear and tear all other items being equal ?
CatFoodFlambe With the constrictions in town, it would likely be cheaper for UP/BNSF to fund a bypass for one of the lines (likely the Burlington BNSF) around Rochelle with an elevated section over the other railroad and a few key roadways than to build an overpass in town. Properly built, the bypassing main could probably keep mainline speed throughout.
Probably the least-involved bypass would go east of Rochelle and Global 3, having to cross one Interstate and have a couple of other major road crossings. Total distance would be on the order of nine miles. The flyover length for getting over UP and I-88 looks to be a little over two miles. That's a lot of dirt. Going east of Rochelle looks to be not even to the stage of stillborn.
I would have to guess at this point that folks in Omaha and Fort Worth who have much better handles on the costs have figured out that they can do an awful lot of diamond maintenance for what any kind of flyover would cost at Rochelle.
junior yardmaster I watch the video of the "diamond" at Rochelle Illinois on a regular basis. I know that the diamonds must be maintained regularly. What sort of repairs are made? There has to be some material other than Manganese - Kevlar, rubber, a mix of steel & "magic fairy dust" - at the point where the wheel goes from nothing back to rail. How about a 2" long piece of steel that is there for the dominant RR, and the secondary line 'switches' it to drop down when they are running?
OWLs crossing. You ought to see the failures all sitting in the scrap piles at AAR/TTC in the baja NE of Pueblo. What's the specific weight and metallurgy of Pixie-Fairy Dust? AAR/TTC will test it on your dime.
Strongest crossings at as close to 90 degrees as possible. The thinner the corner, the weaker the point. (When the welders aren't camped-out at the crossing frog with the arc-welder and wire feeders going all out, they're working the frogs in the turnouts.
If you aren't supporting those frogs with the best you have underneath, they where out even faster.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.