A couple weeks ago, a carload of lumber coming to us in South Dakota went A.W.O.L. instead of shipping from the Washington to Omaha and turning left, it went on to the Chicago area and played hide-n-seek for a while. It was headed back our way, but got lost again. The broker tells us it has been found again, and should be here Sunday-Monday. Amout 20 miles southeast of our lumberyard is a facility built a couple years ago to receive incoming propopane cars by rail. It has a short spur where the cars would be aligned to be hooked up to whatever piping is required to transfer the propane to the big trackside storage tanks. Well, apparantly, they also have a carload of lumber sitting there, ready to be piped into the storage tank. Does the switch crew generally do what their paperwork says to do, and call it good? Do they call the dispatcher if something doesn't look right? Fo instance, if a carload of lumber can be shipped to the propane business, it's conceivable that we could come to work and have a propane tank spotted at our dock. Would the train crew contact the mother ship if the paperwork didn't make a lick of sense?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Murphy Siding:
First of all, I am a retired NP-BN-BNSF clerk from Minneapolis and have worked customer service. I don't know why your car of lumber went astray. Without having all the informaiton, I can't give you an answer. The car of lumber placed on the propane siding was probably spotted there because of a number of issues. Was the switch to the lumber company out of service? Was there another car of lumber in the spur? Was the switch facing the wrong direction for the crew to place said car of lumber on that trip?
No, a crew would not place a car of propane at your lumber company unless it was an emergency, such as the car could not be safely moved any further--wheel issues??
There are too many variables to give you a definite answer without knowing all the facts.
Yes, the conductor will call customer service and give that person all the information, so the clerk can update the computer status of cars in their train. They would also update their paper or computer information.
Ed Burns
It might also have been set off there as a bad order; some defect made it unsafe to travel any further than absolutely necessary to clear the main line.
But another possibility is that for some erroneous reason the switch list or whatever told them to set it off there. The train crew would know it was wrong, and so advise. However certain management types always prefer to believe a crew is merely trying to avoid work and order them to do it anyway, on pain of dismissal.
Wondering - isn't AEI (Automatic Equipment ID) more or less universal among all interchange-capable rolling stock.Does the crew scan the AEI tags of the equipment they set off at a consignee, for real-time updates in whatever central car tracking system the railroad uses?
Many, many years ago, I was in the office of Tom Kelly, NYC System Superintendent for a summer job interview (to go on foot down every siding in the NYC system to find/document every car found!). Tom had started out on the NYC as a track worker and he was using all his accumulated vocabulary to chew out someone who had lost a boxcar of bananas: "If you don't find that car today, you will find it with your nose tomorrow." were his parting words! That was in pre computer days.
I know a few years ago both BNSF and UP played around with laptops and netbooks instead of paper printed work orders, although they still had to have a paper printed sequenced train sheet, but I have not seen that in use for awhile on either one.
AEI scanners are located at the entrances to yards to record arrival and departure of cars, all North American equipment has the transponders (AEI tags) including most MOW equipment.
AEI scanners are located at strategic locations along the main to track the progress of the cars in route.
It would be very odd that the local crew would leave Murphy's car where they did unless something was wrong with the car, or they we out of time to finish spotting it and set it off to be picked up and spotted next run.
As it seems Murphy is the only lumber yard there, the local crew would know the cars goes to him, and even if the paperwork showed it going to the propane plant, which is very unlikely, they would radio it in and get confirmation to place it there.
23 17 46 11
Sometimes things simply get lost in yards, despite the computerized tracking systems. CSX's Selkirk Yard is somewhat famous for losing and misrouting things, including one incident where a new MBTA HSP-46 was misrouted on a train destined for Quebec, where it ran into trouble with customs authorities.
I understand that in the early days of Penn Central, the yard clerks had to walk each track in the yard from time to time to know just what cars they actually had - the computers and paper communications between the two former railroads was not very reliable. More than a few cars were 'lost' - and some were 'found', but without any clue as to where they belonged - until this step was taken.
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr I understand that in the early days of Penn Central, the yard clerks had to walk each track in the yard from time to time to know just what cars they actually had - the computers and paper communications between the two former railroads was not very reliable. More than a few cars were 'lost' - and some were 'found', but without any clue as to where they belonged - until this step was taken. - Paul North.
Lumber and perishables are two easy commodities to lose, as neither normally has a definate consignee or destination when shipped from origin. These products are normally shipped to a broker at some signifigant intermediate point like Chicago or St. Louis. While the shipments are in transit from the Left Coast, the broker will make the sale to the ultimate consignee and their destination. The broker will initiate reconsignment and diversion orders with the carrier who has the car at the time, changing both the consignee and ultimate destination of the car. With all the intermediate 'paperwork' mistakes can and do happen.
PDN - Checker clerks were used until the advent of reliable car identification scanners in the mid to late 1980's. The earlier ACI effort, with the multi-colored reflective bar codes was a failure and was scrapped in the late 1970's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Such cars are refered to as "rollers" and a deal is made for their purchase once they are in route. Sometimes, they just keep being routed from one place to another till a buyer is found. Or at least it used to be that way.
Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
A/K/A "rollers" - something else that John Kneiling despised. That can be done only when the car movement is so slow as to provide enough time for all that sales effort and reconsignment to occur and be communicated. In his world the car would be there much quicker so that it couldn't be done. Presumably the railroad is compensated for the extra paperwork and administrative effort, any double-handling/ extra switching in and out of yards and trains, etc. Still, it's kind of like saying to an airline after you've checked your luggage on a flight to Chicago: "Wait - I really want to go to Sioux Falls*, SD instead - please take my bag out of the luggage hold and put it on that flight instead".
[*Edit - was Rapid City previously. Some of you will know why this changed . . . ]
You're right about the 'mudhops' traditionally, but I remember that ACI was being implemented during that time, too - starting 1968, ending in the early 1970's - which would have only compounded the confusion. (See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KarTrak ; usual disclaimers apply. Note that the field trials took place on the PRR - one of the Penn Central predecessors, of course - at Spruce Creek, which is about midway between Harrisburg and Altoona, but otherwise close to the middle of nowhere.) Also, whatever the actual knowledge in the yard office and down on the tracks, at a 'higher' level transmission of some of the essential information was being attempted by the infamous computers that didn't 'talk' to each other. That may be where the 'disconnect' occurred.
BaltACD Lumber and perishables are two easy commodities to lose, as neither normally has a definate consignee or destination when shipped from origin. These products are normally shipped to a broker at some signifigant intermediate point like Chicago or St. Louis. While the shipments are in transit from the Left Coast, the broker will make the sale to the ultimate consignee and their destination. The broker will initiate reconsignment and diversion orders with the carrier who has the car at the time, changing both the consignee and ultimate destination of the car. With all the intermediate 'paperwork' mistakes can and do happen.
ps Our rail car was here when we got to work this morning. It must have migrated up last night.
Murphy Siding BaltACD Lumber and perishables are two easy commodities to lose, as neither normally has a definate consignee or destination when shipped from origin. These products are normally shipped to a broker at some signifigant intermediate point like Chicago or St. Louis. While the shipments are in transit from the Left Coast, the broker will make the sale to the ultimate consignee and their destination. The broker will initiate reconsignment and diversion orders with the carrier who has the car at the time, changing both the consignee and ultimate destination of the car. With all the intermediate 'paperwork' mistakes can and do happen. I don't know how common that is any more with lumber. In the 6 years we've been receiving cars at our yard, I don't recall any of them being loaded at the mill before an order was received.
I don't know how common that is any more with lumber. In the 6 years we've been receiving cars at our yard, I don't recall any of them being loaded at the mill before an order was received.
Being in the Dakotas you are to the West of the normal reconsignment and diversion points, however, that doesn't totally rule out that type of transaction.
Shippers of the commodities I have described have to ship their products without direct regard of having a 'real' customer at the time they load the cars - they can't afford to hold on to the product until a 'real' customer decides to to buy - they have to ship and hope the load can be sold while the load is in transit.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.