lenzfamily lenzfamily I'm no track expert but I do wonder about the ground conditions in the area and its effect on the track, grade and subgrade. Having travelled by canoe in the area myself, granted years ago, there are times I'd best describe it as soup. It could be that bad here too. I'll look back though the TSB archives to see what I can find, if anything, about this 2011 failure. (See above) I'll be interested to see the TSB investigation reports forthcoming. Railway Investigation R15H0021 (TSB 2015/03/17) Track infrastructure The CN Ruel Subdivision consists of single main track which extends westward from Capreol, Ontario (Mile 0.00) to Hornepayne, Ontario (Mile 296.20). It is primarily composed of continuous welded rail (CWR) and is rated as Class 4 track under the TC-approved Track Safety Rules. Class 4 track permits track speeds of up to 60 mph for freight trains and 80 mph for passenger trains. However, there were permanent slow orders on much of the subdivision to protect against various infrastructure and track maintenance issues. Preliminary indications are that track infrastructure failures may have played a role in each of the Gogama accidents and a 3rd accident that involved a mixed manifest train on the Ruel Subdivision near Minnipuka, Ontario on 5 March 2015. Petroleum crude oil unit trains transporting heavily-loaded tank cars will tend to impart higher than usual forces to the track infrastructure during their operation. These higher forces expose any weaknesses that may be present in the track structure, making the track more susceptible to failure. Given the potential damage of a train derailment, particularly when petroleum crude oil unit trains are involved, the TSB has issued a Safety Advisory Letter hyperlink to letter calling on TC to review the risk assessments conducted for the Ruel Subdivision, assess the track infrastructure condition and determine whether additional risk control measures are required when operating a ”Key Train” on this “Key Route.” Hi All I'm getting the idea from the TSB preliminary report on the three CN Ruel Sub derailments that track infrastructure issues really are going to be critical and perhaps causitive. If as others (more qualified than I) have said, loaded tank cars are really hard on track, it follows that 'key routes' had really better be up to scratch. A 'key route' through a 'bog' (which is a large part of the Ruel Sub goes through) won't cut it. It appears to have been an accident waiting to happen. Significantly, to me at least, is also the fact that the TSB lead investigator in this last derailment is a civil engineer. I can imagine a whole lot more discussion (and regulation resulting) regarding every aspect of 'key routes' and 'key trains' operation going forward. It may be too that tank car redesigns are going to have to be rethought given other comments made about damage and loss of product in the same report. IMHO This type of traffic may well get too 'hot to handle' if railways are going to face this kind of trouble and resulting considerable expense. Perhaps that's part of why Mr Harrison and CP are talking about wanting to have discretion and the right to refuse the haulage of certain dangerous goods. It may not be worth it to them. I can also see the possibility of a cascading effect of expensive track infrastructure upgrades and upgraded/new tank cars looming... It's becoming a Pandora's box of dangerous gifts that just keeps on giving. Charlie Chilliwack, BC
lenzfamily I'm no track expert but I do wonder about the ground conditions in the area and its effect on the track, grade and subgrade. Having travelled by canoe in the area myself, granted years ago, there are times I'd best describe it as soup. It could be that bad here too. I'll look back though the TSB archives to see what I can find, if anything, about this 2011 failure. (See above) I'll be interested to see the TSB investigation reports forthcoming.
The CN Ruel Subdivision consists of single main track which extends westward from Capreol, Ontario (Mile 0.00) to Hornepayne, Ontario (Mile 296.20). It is primarily composed of continuous welded rail (CWR) and is rated as Class 4 track under the TC-approved Track Safety Rules. Class 4 track permits track speeds of up to 60 mph for freight trains and 80 mph for passenger trains. However, there were permanent slow orders on much of the subdivision to protect against various infrastructure and track maintenance issues.
Preliminary indications are that track infrastructure failures may have played a role in each of the Gogama accidents and a 3rd accident that involved a mixed manifest train on the Ruel Subdivision near Minnipuka, Ontario on 5 March 2015. Petroleum crude oil unit trains transporting heavily-loaded tank cars will tend to impart higher than usual forces to the track infrastructure during their operation. These higher forces expose any weaknesses that may be present in the track structure, making the track more susceptible to failure. Given the potential damage of a train derailment, particularly when petroleum crude oil unit trains are involved, the TSB has issued a Safety Advisory Letter hyperlink to letter calling on TC to review the risk assessments conducted for the Ruel Subdivision, assess the track infrastructure condition and determine whether additional risk control measures are required when operating a ”Key Train” on this “Key Route.”
Hi All
I'm getting the idea from the TSB preliminary report on the three CN Ruel Sub derailments that track infrastructure issues really are going to be critical and perhaps causitive.
If as others (more qualified than I) have said, loaded tank cars are really hard on track, it follows that 'key routes' had really better be up to scratch. A 'key route' through a 'bog' (which is a large part of the Ruel Sub goes through) won't cut it. It appears to have been an accident waiting to happen. Significantly, to me at least, is also the fact that the TSB lead investigator in this last derailment is a civil engineer.
I can imagine a whole lot more discussion (and regulation resulting) regarding every aspect of 'key routes' and 'key trains' operation going forward.
It may be too that tank car redesigns are going to have to be rethought given other comments made about damage and loss of product in the same report.
IMHO This type of traffic may well get too 'hot to handle' if railways are going to face this kind of trouble and resulting considerable expense. Perhaps that's part of why Mr Harrison and CP are talking about wanting to have discretion and the right to refuse the haulage of certain dangerous goods. It may not be worth it to them.
I can also see the possibility of a cascading effect of expensive track infrastructure upgrades and upgraded/new tank cars looming...
It's becoming a Pandora's box of dangerous gifts that just keeps on giving.
Charlie
Chilliwack, BC
Rail - despite it's outward appearances has a definite life span when subjected to heavy axle loadings over time.
On my carrier and within my area of responsibility, 15 years ago we experienced near 100 broken rails and pull-a-parts during each Winter month - December-January-February - 300 +/- during the period for consecutive Winters. Subsequently heavy duty new rail installation was undertaken during the Spring-Summer-Fall work seasons in the following years. With Winter weather and low temps of Zero and below, as well as Summer temps of 100+ - rail takes tremendous stresses from just being installed in the right of way without any respect to the traffic that is operated over it.
The scary thing about broken rails from my personal point of view, and experience - they are 'discovered' after one or more trains operate over a signaled track segment and leave the track occupancy light on after the train has departed the track segment. ie. the rail broke as the train operated over it. There but for the grace of God goes a major incident.
You could operate a Sperry car over a territory weekly, and the potential for a broken rail would still exist. Carriers can do everything within human control to prevent broken rails - but they can't guarantee that a rail won't break under traffic. Potentially all it takes is for a loaded car to have a severe flat spot and operate over the track at line speed in Zero degree weather, with each rotation of the wheel acting like a cold chisel striking the rail head with 18 tons of force at the point of impact on the rail head - over and over with each revolution of the wheel set. When you are dealing with the wheel/rail interface the forces generated when something is not 'right' are able to damage either the wheel, the rail or both - with dire consequences.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Potentially all it takes is for a loaded car to have a severe flat spot and operate over the track at line speed in Zero degree weather, with each rotation of the wheel acting like a cold chisel striking the rail head with 18 tons of force at the point of impact on the rail head - over and over with each revolution of the wheel set. When you are dealing with the wheel/rail interface the forces generated when something is not 'right' are able to damage either the wheel, the rail or both - with dire consequences.
Potentially all it takes is for a loaded car to have a severe flat spot and operate over the track at line speed in Zero degree weather, with each rotation of the wheel acting like a cold chisel striking the rail head with 18 tons of force at the point of impact on the rail head - over and over with each revolution of the wheel set. When you are dealing with the wheel/rail interface the forces generated when something is not 'right' are able to damage either the wheel, the rail or both - with dire consequences.
So why haven't more wild detectors been installed ? Is the technology still not mature enough ? Cost ? Or something else ?
Can't speak for other carriers. Mine has WILD detectors in place on the lines that handle a high volume of heavy haul traffic. Additionally a database is maintained of all cars passing over these detectors (and other detectors that measure levels of car health) and the relative severity of the impacts in 4 classes of impact (actually 5 as 'no impact' is also identified). Grades 1 & 2 are identified in the database, but no field action is required. Grade 3 requires trains to reduce speed to 30 MPH and operate to the next terminal to set the car out. Grade 4 requires the train to be immediately stopped, the car inspected by the crew and if considered safe to move, move to the nearest set out track at a speed not to exceed 10 MPH. In many cases the crew reports that there is 'built up wheel tread' and current instruction are that the Car Department must be summoned to inspect the car before any further movement is permitted. (built up tread is the transfer of brake shoe material to the wheel tread account of a stuck brake condition - with the tread built up there is less flange area available to keep the car on the rail)
Over the 5 or so years that this WILD Detector has been in place, the number of cars activating has been decreasing as the only 'repair' for the cars that are set out is to change out the wheel sets that activated the detector. The WILD Detector 5 years ago was being activated by 25-35 trains per month and each train was experiencing approximately 3 hours delay in getting the cars set off. Now only 5-10 trains per month are activating the WILD detectors.
BaltACD
Good news that the activations are decreasing. Can you speculate on why you think the number of activations has declined so significantly. Better detection of the bad cars prior to their passage over this detector, better inspections, better handling in the prior periods. Or does the fact that the cars are being found by the detectors get them corrected before they get dangerous? I doubt that they might adjust the detetor threshold to reduce the alerts but I have heard of that in the past. Like Chicago shortning the yellow light time to ncrease the number of Red Light Camera violations. Thanks
E - I'm not Balt, but I'll opine that the number of defect detectors and the consistancy of their measurements probably has a lot to do with it.
And, they're always on duty. Before the newer detectors came to be, it might well be possible for a train to travel hundreds of miles without passing a railroad employee (who would be doing a roll-by).
Further, improvements in car ID and communications mean that management can have the information on a near real-time basis, rather than a third or fourth hand report from a railroad employee who happened to be trackside and may not have been able to determine exactly which car was the offender. Or the exact degree of the flaw. As has been mentioned, now a car can be flagged for closer inspection at the next yard or other facility.
And, as has also been mentioned, on-car sensors make identification of cars needing attention just that much easier.
A wise car foreman is going to make every effort to ensure that the cars he deals with are in pretty good shape - he doesn't want to get tagged as the cause of the next big derailment.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Electroliner 1935 BaltACD Good news that the activations are decreasing. Can you speculate on why you think the number of activations has declined so significantly. Better detection of the bad cars prior to their passage over this detector, better inspections, better handling in the prior periods. Or does the fact that the cars are being found by the detectors get them corrected before they get dangerous? I doubt that they might adjust the detetor threshold to reduce the alerts but I have heard of that in the past. Like Chicago shortning the yellow light time to ncrease the number of Red Light Camera violations. Thanks
The heavy haul cars passing the WILD detectors are in 'near captive' service - Mines to port and/or power plant and return to Mines; or industrial cars in return service between shippers and consignees. With the cars making repeated trips over the detector, activating it and then getting their wheels changed out as necessary the bad actors of most of the recuring fleet have been weeded out.
The WILD detector also measures load imbalances, both side to side and fore & aft and the suspect cars get identified, it also has the regular Hot Box and Dragging Equipment detectors - a lot of trains are flagged for a lot of reasons.
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