Just read in Train Travels by Pullman - 1950, "At 5,074 feet, beautiful Paisano Pass was topped and the highest point on the Sunset Route had been achieved." Is this accurate? Even though I'm a Texan, I have trouble believing this superlative.
A couple of chapters later, I read that SP's cab forwards were built that way to improve engineer's visibility. I know that to be untrue so now I'm wondering about the highest point on the Sunset Route.
ChuckAllen, TX
The 5074 feet elevation probably is true!
If you go to “mapper.acme.com” (don’t use “www.”), chose the “Topo” view, and type in “N 30.27963 W 103.81390” and press ENTER (on the keyboard), the topo displays a few elevations in that area approximately in that number neighborhood.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
I don't doubt the 5,074' but I wonder how SP's Sunset Route got through the Rockies without going any higher than that.
This Wikipedia table (usual disclaimers apply ! *) says the SP crossed the Continential Divide at Wilna, NM at elev. 4,584 ft.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_railroad_crossings_of_the_North_American_continental_divide#United_States
(*Cripes ! See the pro-Milwaukee Road St. Paul Pass / Pacific Coast Extension rant at the bottom of this table. I'll let the obvious errors speak for themselves - NTSB ??? grades over 3% on other routes ?!? etc.)
However, this article does reference one of Dale's /nanaimo73's excellent compilations from March 2006 - "Continental Divide Crossings" - following is an excerpt from it, at: http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/507/t/59946.aspx , about 1/3 of the way down the page:
"26-Wilna, New Mexico Southern Pacific's Sunset Route crossed the Divide at 4584', the lowest of the Transcons. The Sunset Route has higher elevations, 4613' to the west at Dragoon Arizona and 5078' to the east at Paisano Pass Texas. This line was built during 1881, and on March 1 the SP and the ATSF met at Deming, 25 miles to the east, opening the second transcontinental route. SP's Sunset route reached El Paso in May and was completed all the way to New Orleans in 1883. This is now the third busiest crossing, behind the former ATSF over Campbell Pass (#23) and the UP mainline across Wyoming (#11), handling about 85 GMT. There are about 50 trains traveling through here during an average day. Passenger service through Wilna is by Amtrak's Sunset Limited, with the nearest stops at Deming and Lordsburg."
In case you were wondering (as I was), Beaumont Pass is supposedly in the 2,500 to 3,000 ft. elevation range: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaumont,_California#Geography
The pass itelf is the San Gorgonio Pass, at elev. 1,591 ft.: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Gorgonio_Pass
I don't know the territory there well, so any clarifications / corrections are invited.
Another resource is the April 2004 Trains special issue on "Mountain Railroads" - http://www.kalmbachstore.com/trn040401.html It has profiles of many routes, and that would quickly depict and resolve the conundrum here (maybe tonight or over the weekend ?).
- Paul North.
PDN: I will check Mr Track Chart this weekend from the security of 6100 feet, if I get a chance. (Lord only knows what datum that thing uses)
There is an article on Paisano Pass in the Sept 1987 CTC Board magazine. Not sure which box my copy is in at the moment.
This map may be of interest to some
http://www.up.com/aboutup/reference/maps/highest_elevations/index.htm
The Gadsden Purchase (1854) allowed the Sunset Route to run south of the mountains, so the route does not go through the Rockies.
Paisano has always been the highest point on the Sunset Route.
Lowest rail route across the country (i.e. the route that has the lowest maximum elevation) is SP from LA to El Paso, then T&P. Highest point on that route is between El Paso and Sierra Blanca, not at the Continental Divide.
(I was surprised to learn that El Paso to New Orleans is shorter via T&P than via SP.)
What was the highest point on the El Paso & SW. I see they crossed the contenental divide below 5000'.
The El Paso & South Western crossed the Continental Divide at an altitude of 4,694 feet, which was 155 feet higher than the SP's crossing, but the grades were less than those of the SP. The crossing was somewhere between Columbus and Hermanas, New Mexico.
I see now that Paisano Pass is in Texas (east of El Paso.)
nanaimo73 There is an article on Paisano Pass in the Sept 1987 CTC Board magazine. Not sure which box my copy is in at the moment. This map may be of interest to some http://www.up.com/aboutup/reference/maps/highest_elevations/index.htm
"This Union Pacific Highest Elevations map identifies the highest and lowest geographical rail elevations on the Union Pacific system.
Note: Pressure-sensitive shipments, including potato chips or pressurized vessels, may incur damage if shipped across these points." [emphasis added - PDN]
It shows Paisano Pass: "High Elev. - Valentine - 5,078’ Elev. - Paisano, TX - MP 619.26 - but not Beaumont Hill, nor some of the others mentioned in this thread.
It also shows Tennessee Pass ! "High Elev. - TN Pass - 10,221’ Elev. - Tennessee Pass, CO - MP 281.25 O.O.S" [presumably that means "Out Of Service" - PDN]
And of course, it also shows "Lowest Elev. - Yuma - -205’ Elev. - Forrum, CA - MP 612.00"
Paul,
Those of us who fly in small aircraft are well aware of the "sensitive nature" of such things. Having a bag of potato chips go "POP" at 12,000 ft is no big deal till you have to clean up the mess.
Norm
The crossing of the Continental Divide is frequently not the highest point on a particular mainline. For example the highest point on UP's Overland route is the summit of Sherman Hill, while the crossing of the Continental Divide occurs significantly further west at Creston, WY. The Overland route crosses the North Platte river both to the east and to the west of Sherman Hill.
The UP map seems to show the high points above 4000' (with the exception of the coast line). However, for a shipment from El Paso to Oakland, it would pass over Dragoon, AZ 4613' and Tehachapi Summit 4031', neither of which is shown on the map.
Paul_D_North_Jr Note: Pressure-sensitive shipments, including potato chips or pressurized vessels, may incur damage if shipped across these points." [emphasis added - PDN]
MidlandMikeWhat was the highest point on the El Paso & SW [west of El Paso]
EP&SW crossed the Continental Divide three times betw Tucson and El Paso, but that high point isn't one of them.
timz MidlandMike What was the highest point on the El Paso & SW [west of El Paso] Looks like the high point was at about 31.8967N 108.247W, 4740 to 4750 ft elevation. EP&SW crossed the Continental Divide three times betw Tucson and El Paso, but that high point isn't one of them.
MidlandMike What was the highest point on the El Paso & SW [west of El Paso]
Looks like the high point was at about 31.8967N 108.247W, 4740 to 4750 ft elevation.
Thanks. I had previously noticed the wanderings of the continental divide in the area. I looked over the entire line, but I didn't pick up on this summit. My 11" laptop is not the best for viewing internet topo maps, and I mis-interpreted the contor interval.
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