Modeling the "Fargo Area Rapid Transit" in O scale 3 rail.
Hi, I'm not sure if they are empty or not. A good clue would be to look at the trucks of that car the next time you see one. You can tell if the springs are compressed (car is full of something) or if they are fully extended the car would be empty.
They are loaded with "pebbles" That's what it says on the manifest. an empty car on the head end is a BAD idea.
R
The buffer cars that I've seen so far are assigned to the M/W department and stenciled "Buffer Service Only, Do Not Load". That being said, they may be loaded with sand or a similar inert substance to give them some necessary weight.
You don't want weight, you want volume - preferably non-flammable that won't consolidate or expand..
Rail trains used sawdust and scrap foam rubber; As Randy said - Pebbles.
The most recent Oil trains we have handled off the BNSF have the contents of the buffer cars identified as 'sand'. Had one derailed on a bridge and it needed to be unloaded to be safely handled to rerail it - had to have men inside the car with jackhammers to 'loosen' the contents for unloading.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
CSSHEGEWISCHThe buffer cars that I've seen so far are assigned to the M/W department and stenciled "Buffer Service Only, Do Not Load".
Usually buffer cars are obsolete cars, small hoppers that are no longer competitive with the bigger ones around, but have not lived their maximum life span and still have a few years left. Otherwise, they probably would be scrapped, so a free resource.
That pretty much agrees with what I've seen. The buffer cars seem to be drawn from the same class of covered hoppers that were also converted to M/W ballast cars.
I kinda like seeing the ethanol trains with buffer cars. It's usually a chance to see some retro looking covered hopper in need of paint.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I thought I understood the purpose of buffer cars, but after reading about them, I have seen more than one explanation. The general explanation that I had always assumed was to keep the crew separated from dangerous cargo in case of a wreck. But how much protection does one car separating the engines from say 100 tank cars provide in the case of a derailment at the head end?
Euclid But how much protection does one car separating the engines from say 100 tank cars provide in the case of a derailment at the head end?
About 50 feet more than they'd have without...
That may sound flippant, but fifty feet is fifty feet. Add that to the length of two locomotives (or 3) and you've got a halfway decent buffer.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The locomotives would indeed provide separation, although somebody could be riding on any of them at times. Fifty feet does not seem like much. If the derailment begins ten cars back, you have as much as ten cars separation, but then one buffer car does not seem like it would make enough difference to go to the trouble of having it.
If the derailment happens with the engines hitting something, then the tank cars are likely to push right up alongside of the engines. It does not seem like a buffer car would help much in that situation either.
One explanation I saw was the the buffer car is to prevent the engines from igniting the oil cars if the engines happen to catch fire, particularly in the case of a wreck. But wrecks provide a plentiful sourse of ignition just from the steel buckling and abrasion.
Here's how cover works.
Federal law (and railroad rules) require a load of flammable liquid to be the 6th car from an engine or caboose, train length permitting with a minimum of one car.
What "train length permitting" means is that you have to use cars from the consist of the train to make the cover if its there. So if I have a train with 5 cars that could be used for cover, I have to use all of those cars to cover the load (regardless of blocking).
However, in a unit train of flammable liquid NONE of the cars would not be useable as cover. Train length does not permit there to be 5 cars of cover. Therefore the railroad has to add one car that doesn't belong on the train as cover to meet the minimum requirements. If there are engines on both ends, then the train requires a minimum of two cover cars, one on each end. The tricky part is that if the train just has engines on one end, but has a cover car on both ends of the train, its in violation of the rules because both buffer cars have to be on the end with the engines. The train has two cars that can be used for cover so both have to be used.
The rules are written that way so railroads don't have to "misroute" cars to provide cover.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
The HAZMAT rules regarding car placement have been around for much longer than unit oil trains.
Scroll down to page 15 on the document, and enjoy reading!
http://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Details/L03467
dehusmanThe tricky part is that if the train just has engines on one end, but has a cover car on both ends of the train, its in violation of the rules because both buffer cars have to be on the end with the engines. The train has two cars that can be used for cover so both have to be used.
I believe you are mistaken there. From the handy FRA link that Northwest posted:
"If 6 deep is not possible, then loaded placarded cars must be placed in the middle of the train andseparated from the locomotives or occupied caboose by at least one nonplacarded car."
From what I understand, if you have 2 non-hazmat cars, you can have them bracketing your hazmat cars, even if your engines are on one end. Now once you get 5 non-hazmat cars, then yeah, you need to get them on the head end.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann "If 6 deep is not possible, then loaded placarded cars must be placed in the middle of the train andseparated from the locomotives or occupied caboose by at least one nonplacarded car."
This statement assumes an occupied caboose. My statement assumes there is no occupied caboose. If there are no engines or occupied caboose on the rear then all the cover has to go on the head end. I've been told that personally by an FRA inspector.
dehusman zugmann "If 6 deep is not possible, then loaded placarded cars must be placed in the middle of the train andseparated from the locomotives or occupied caboose by at least one nonplacarded car." This statement assumes an occupied caboose. My statement assumes there is no occupied caboose. If there are no engines or occupied caboose on the rear then all the cover has to go on the head end. I've been told that personally by an FRA inspector.
Which is correct for flatlanders - when the railroad starts to climb and helpers come into play, it is the same requirements as the head end.
Flatlanders have trouble understanding the requirements of mountain railroading.
NorthWest The HAZMAT rules regarding car placement have been around for much longer than unit oil trains. Scroll down to page 15 on the document, and enjoy reading! http://www.fra.dot.gov/Elib/Details/L03467
Northwest;
The DOT Doc is an interesting read, but the one thing I noticed is the publication date of 2005....Lotsa "water under that bridge" since 2005....
Out her in 'fly-over' land [about MP225.5] on the Southern T-con; there are many more tank cars and tank trains moving these days than even several years ago. When the move to trains for crude oil started several years back. Tank cars seemed to move in cuts within the geeral merchandise trains. Then there was a move to more and more solid trains with buffer cars between power and the train. In the last year or so. The solid 'unit trains' are still moving, but they also seem to be moving in other trains in blocks between other types of cars(boxes,gons, etc.).
As has been said around here the make up of 'general' types of trains is normally a captive of the trains route and it various pick-ups, set-outs and locations of terminal stops, en route to final destination. Coming off the Southern T-con here ( Eldorado Sub) and at Mulvane,(Ks) where the Eldorado sub, and the Ark City sub junction ( south of the Wichita area) They seem to produce more solid unit trains of tank cars; which stands to reason since that line comes up out of Texas and Okla, more directly, than the T-con which goes from this area towards Amarillo, and points West. Just some perceptions and observations.
My point being, The various Federal agencies set guideline and the Railroads have to adapt them in each circumstance to the Operational Picture for each day. Point A to B Unit Trains ( Grain worms, Sand Trains,and 'Stackers' are products of contracts with shippers. While the other types of trains seem to run based on an accumulation of cars to go to another destination area. Again just some observations from the perspective of a train watching rail fan...
Hi Sam,
While things have changed since 2005, I don't think the car placement rules have.
I posted the link as it has an interesting history of the rules.
dehusmanThis statement assumes an occupied caboose. My statement assumes there is no occupied caboose. If there are no engines or occupied caboose on the rear then all the cover has to go on the head end. I've been told that personally by an FRA inspector.
Ask 5 FRA inspectors a question and you will get 5 different answers. Then you get the individual RR's interpretations. I'm looking at a UP chart now, and it is worded differently than the ones we get. Awesome to add confusion.
Unit oil and ethanol trains out here were running with buffers front and rear - for when they needed helper service. But they keep the buffers on even when no helper engine is attached.
Home computer back working. Now I can get email replies.
zugmann dehusmanThe tricky part is that if the train just has engines on one end, but has a cover car on both ends of the train, its in violation of the rules because both buffer cars have to be on the end with the engines. The train has two cars that can be used for cover so both have to be used. I believe you are mistaken there. From the handy FRA link that Northwest posted: "If 6 deep is not possible, then loaded placarded cars must be placed in the middle of the train andseparated from the locomotives or occupied caboose by at least one nonplacarded car." From what I understand, if you have 2 non-hazmat cars, you can have them bracketing your hazmat cars, even if your engines are on one end. Now once you get 5 non-hazmat cars, then yeah, you need to get them on the head end.
In our rules classes, the managers always say that the UP has more stringent requirements than what the government requires. (I know some would find it hard to believe that a private company has stricter requirements than the government.) Our instructions (or interpretations) are if you have less than 5 buffer cars, you use all available until the 5 car requirement is met. If you have 4 available buffer cars on a conventional train, all 4 need to be used as such.
If you have a loaded (for example) ethanol train with a DP but only two available buffer cars, train length does not permit having the requirement of 5 on both ends. Putting the hazmat cars in the middle of the train, between the two buffer cars, meets the requirement of at least one car. One between the lead engine(s) and one between the DP engine(s).
Should the DP fail and the train become conventionalized, with all power on the front, the UP instructions now would say that the train length permits the use of that rear buffer on the head end, for a total of two buffer cars on the head end. The 5 car minimum between engines and hazmat must be satisfied before leaving a potential buffer car on the rear end.
The UP also operates in mountain areas. Just because a train may use rear end helpers on 20 miles of a 1000 mile journey doesn't relieve the need to use all available buffer cars to try to meet the 5 car minimum that our instructions require.
Jeff
I did look up a UP placement chart. A bit different than ours.
in the flatland of florida the rules are the same book but the ultimate responsibility is with the railroad as they are almost always self insured for anything less than a catastrophic loss. at the FEC we r a intrastate railroad that is overseen by federaral regulations many of which are not relevant to daily operations. all freight moves at night. all freight crews return home every morning if the good lord is willing. we will be building the only privately funded high speed train service between Miami and cocoa initially and ultimately to Orlando. this two will be intrastate and will be done with no federal dollars involved. while we must abide by federal regulations many of them are just not applicable.
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