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Chicago mayor Emanuel seeks per car fees for oil coming through cities.

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:29 PM

I understand the point about money talks, but victimhood leads to empowerment and people living in small towns are going to wield a lot of clout due their underdog status in this game.  This re-routing might have been an idea with some merit, but the last thing on earth they should have ever done is tell the public about it.  Now, every oil train everywhere will be perceived as a menace somebody else is being protected from.  I don’t think they thought this through.  

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Posted by zugmann on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 9:31 PM

Euclid

I understand the point about money talks, but victimhood leads to empowerment and people living in small towns are going to wield a lot of clout due their underdog status in this game.  This re-routing might have been an idea with some merit, but the last thing on earth they should have ever done is tell the public about it.  Now, every oil train everywhere will be perceived as a menace somebody else is being protected from.  I don’t think they thought this through.  

Maybe only run them at night?  And during the day, they can hide the train under a big pile of hay?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Euclid on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:02 PM

Either that or just hang sheets on it. 

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Posted by schlimm on Tuesday, January 28, 2014 10:06 PM

Accidental double post.  And it' not about you, murphy, although you think so. 

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Posted by Norm48327 on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 5:43 AM

Euclid

I understand the point about money talks, but victimhood leads to empowerment and people living in small towns are going to wield a lot of clout due their underdog status in this game.  This re-routing might have been an idea with some merit, but the last thing on earth they should have ever done is tell the public about it.  Now, every oil train everywhere will be perceived as a menace somebody else is being protected from.  I don’t think they thought this through.  

Oh. Now you are playing your ace, right? Everybody's a victim of the big bad corporations. Yeah; sure!

Norm


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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:57 AM

schlimm

Accidental double post.  And it' not about you, murphy, although you think so. 

  OK.  But, perhaps you need to work on the clarity of your ad homonym attacks,  to make it easier to figure out who you are trying to insult.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 8:21 AM

Norm48327
Euclid
I understand the point about money talks, but victimhood leads to empowerment and people living in small towns are going to wield a lot of clout due their underdog status in this game.  This re-routing might have been an idea with some merit, but the last thing on earth they should have ever done is tell the public about it.  Now, every oil train everywhere will be perceived as a menace somebody else is being protected from.  I don’t think they thought this through.  

Oh. Now you are playing your ace, right? Everybody's a victim of the big bad corporations. Yeah; sure!

Norm,

Hold your horses.  It's not my ace and I am not playing it.  I am just pointing out that it will be played.  This re-routing proposal is a golden opportunity for victimhood to be exploited by and green agenda.  They will start as soon as people realize that there will be people wherever oil trains go.  Nobody living in a less densely populated area is going to accept a higher risk from people living in more densely populated areas. 

This redistibution of risk will go over like robbing from the poor and giving to the rich. 

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:27 AM

Euclid
This re-routing proposal is a golden opportunity for victimhood to be exploited by and green agenda.  They will start as soon as people realize that there will be people wherever oil trains go.  Nobody living in a less densely populated area is going to accept a higher risk from people living in more densely populated areas. 

That's just your anti-green meme.

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 2:18 PM

schlimm

 And some of the areas the BNSF traverses are not so rich: parts of Aurora, Westmont, Berwyn, to name a few.  You really do not know what you are talking about.  Your greed-driven fear that the rails might make a little less money is comical.  Meanwhile the CEO's, who actually can see the big picture, are looking with caution at the Bakken problem because they recognize that they are potentially one disaster from bankruptcy.  Fortunately, they are the ones making decisions.

  The oil trains would still traverse "not so rich Aurora," as the EJE runs along the eastern part of it.  They would also be routed through other "not so rich" areas like Joliet, Griffith, Ford Heights, Chicago Heights and Crest Hill.  Frankly I could not care less if the BNSF makes a little bit less money, and no where I have I said that I would care about that.  Your accusation is comical.

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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 3:46 PM

There is also the problem of running an oil train on a triple-tracked line packed with other freight and many commuter trains + Amtrak.  When a derailment occurs there, the disaster would be magnified.  Sorry if you don't understand simple geography and probability statistics.   But the BNSF CEO Rose does.   If you want to pretend this is about some discrimination against non-wealthy areas, cannot help you. 

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 4:10 PM

schlimm

There is also the problem of running an oil train on a triple-tracked line packed with other freight and many commuter trains + Amtrak.  

 News flash, ANY train that derails in commuter territory will be an issue.   Please stop making this stuff up as you go.  I am sorry you fail to understand basic railroading 101.  Do yourself a favor, go get a job with the railroad, THEN tell us how to do things.  

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Posted by dakotafred on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 6:28 PM

It will be interesting, assuming the rails are sincere, to see them come up with routes that meet all or even most of the specs. Most of our remaining routes go thru important cities -- which is why we still have them. Most are also more or less busy, another reason we still have them.

If the lesser routes are favored, does the money strictly follow the cars, or is there a cut for the line that is asked to short-haul itself? I can foresee a conflict over this that would quickly fracture the unified industry line advanced by Ed Hamberger. 

 

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Posted by Euclid on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 7:13 PM

New York Governor Cuomo has annonced his position:

http://www.governor.ny.gov/press/01292014-crude-oil-rail-safety

 

 

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Posted by NoLaPhoto1 on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 8:18 PM
A comment or two specifically declared that the oil companies would raise prices on gasoline in response to Rahm "the godfather" Emanuel's proposed tax. I'd like to remind everyone that neither gasoline prices nor oil prices are set by oil companies. Both items are traded on a commodities market such as the New York Mercantile Exchange. Yes, wholesale delivery contracts of refined gasoline is traded. Keep in mind, in addition to these prices, the federal government and individual states each impose their own tax, disguised as as highway tax... a tax that in the past has been squandered and used for a host of projects that have nothing to do with highway construction or maintenance. Combined, these taxes can add as much as 60 cents to a gallon of gas. I believe California and Connecticut add the highest gasoline taxes at the state level.
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Posted by schlimm on Wednesday, January 29, 2014 9:33 PM

dakotafred

It will be interesting, assuming the rails are sincere, to see them come up with routes that meet all or even most of the specs. Most of our remaining routes go thru important cities -- which is why we still have them. Most are also more or less busy, another reason we still have them.

If the lesser routes are favored, does the money strictly follow the cars, or is there a cut for the line that is asked to short-haul itself? I can foresee a conflict over this that would quickly fracture the unified industry line advanced by Ed Hamberger. 

 

Fred:  How might that play out, do you suppose?  Some revenue sharing arrangement different from current practices?   It seems likely something along those lines will occur.

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Posted by dakotafred on Thursday, January 30, 2014 7:49 AM

schlimm

dakotafred

It will be interesting, assuming the rails are sincere, to see them come up with routes that meet all or even most of the specs. Most of our remaining routes go thru important cities -- which is why we still have them. Most are also more or less busy, another reason we still have them.

If the lesser routes are favored, does the money strictly follow the cars, or is there a cut for the line that is asked to short-haul itself? I can foresee a conflict over this that would quickly fracture the unified industry line advanced by Ed Hamberger. 

 

Fred:  How might that play out, do you suppose?  Some revenue sharing arrangement different from current practices?   It seems likely something along those lines will occur.

Greyhounds or somebody else with experience in rate making will have to jump in here.

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Posted by dehusman on Thursday, January 30, 2014 9:31 AM

dakotafred

schlimm

dakotafred

It will be interesting, assuming the rails are sincere, to see them come up with routes that meet all or even most of the specs. Most of our remaining routes go thru important cities -- which is why we still have them. Most are also more or less busy, another reason we still have them.

If the lesser routes are favored, does the money strictly follow the cars, or is there a cut for the line that is asked to short-haul itself? I can foresee a conflict over this that would quickly fracture the unified industry line advanced by Ed Hamberger. 

 

Fred:  How might that play out, do you suppose?  Some revenue sharing arrangement different from current practices?   It seems likely something along those lines will occur.

Greyhounds or somebody else with experience in rate making will have to jump in here.

 
There are whole lot of legal issues here.  Lets say railroad A's route goes through Metropolis while railroad B's  route goes through Smallville.  Someone decides that the route through Smallville is the "best' route and requires all the crude oil to operate on railroad B. 
 
If I was railroad B I would be suing somebody because whoever made that decision has now shifted 100% of the liability for an accident to my company.  If the government or some other entity is going to force a railroad to accept liability by artificially requiring a particular routing, will that entity cover the risk that the entity has forced railroad B to assume.
 
If I have a fertilizer dealership 100 ft from a school and you have a business 1000 ft from the school  would you be ok if the city required you to house my ammonium nitrate and anhydrous ammonia on your property  because its "safer" for the school?
 
If you had a detached garage and everybody else has an attached garage, would you be OK with everybody in your neighborhood storing their gasoline for their yard equipment in your garage?  Would your insurance company be OK with that arrangement?

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Posted by Euclid on Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:36 AM

.  

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Posted by wilmette2210 on Thursday, January 30, 2014 10:39 AM
Well as Rahm would it's "for the children" LOL. But this is something that i think
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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, January 30, 2014 1:26 PM

Pardon me, and maybe this is politics and will be removed:  But I see Obamacare as exactly the kind of thinking indicated in your garage story.  In some parts of the world the police would enforce just such a policy!  And it is fortunate that there is freedom where that is not the case in the USA or Canada.

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Posted by Steve Sweeney on Friday, February 14, 2014 8:14 AM

Hi Folks:

We have had complaints about this thread. Crude-by-Rail is a charged, but important topic to discuss. Let's try and be respectful and on-topic.

Have a safe day,

Steve S.

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, February 14, 2014 8:23 AM

Maybe this will take a back-seat to the gas transmission issue now that pipelines are self destructing again.

http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/kentucky-natural-gas-pipeline-explosion-20140213 

Regardless, I'm sure they have experts in city hall with real railroad experienceSad 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, February 14, 2014 8:38 AM

Steve Sweeney

Hi Folks:

We have had complaints about this thread. Crude-by-Rail is a charged, but important topic to discuss. Let's try and be respectful and on-topic.

Have a safe day,

Steve S.

Yet you bring to the fore a topic that had been inactive for over 2 weeks.  Your point?

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by MP173 on Saturday, February 15, 2014 11:54 AM

Perhaps I should charge City of Chicago a fee when I drive on their pot hole infested streets.

Ed

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