The 611, cost-benefit analysis, and my hometown's homecoming parade

[gabe]

The first time the 611 came through my hometown in Southern Illinois was during my hometown's homecoming parade. As people were lining up aside the parade route before the parade started, some people noticed there were roughly 25 people along the side of the tracks.

People--being talkative and inquisitive--would say, "Hey Joe, the parade's over here, why are you over by the tracks?" The rail fans then told the would-be-parade watchers about the 611, what it meant to railroading, etc. and some of the parade watchers decided to join the rail fans alongside the track. Well you know how crowds work. When more than 100 people decided to gather along side the tracks, suddenly everyone in the crowd decided they too had to be along side the tracks.

Then everyone heard the 611's incredible deep enchanting riverboat whistle in the distance. Although less than 1% of the people there were legitimate rail fans, all of them--familiar with trains coming through town--could tell it was something special, and you could feel the excitement building in the crowd.

As the crowd could see the smoke in the distance, the excitement just kept building. The 611's engineer had to wonder what the deal was with the size of the crowd, because he really gave us a healthy dose of the whistle. The crowd--of what had to be well over 1000 people--was literally cheering; yes, a crowd of normal people cheering for a train! You could see the people inside the passenger cars, engineer, fireman, etc. emphatically waiving. It was very moving.

After it was over, I could hear people in the crowd saying WOW!, it seemed like it was smiling, it seemed to effortlessly pull that train, it seemed to have a certain nobility about it, etc. The comments clearly indicated most speakers didn't know much about trains; but that was what made it so special. A train was making ordinary people happy and excited.

Finally, I turned around and noticed the parade had begun and the track-end of the parade route was virtually deserted. It was almost kind of errie--seeing a parade without any people watching it.

My point:

Railroads need the public to view them positively and to have the good will of the public. This helps whether applying to a local city council to put in/take out a rail crossing, passing a law in Washington, negotiating property tax issues, or selling stock.

When NS has a commercial on TV, I--even as a rail fan--change the channel, as I would be willing to bet most other Americans do. When the 611 came through my hometown, non-rail fans swarmed the side of the tracks, stopped doing something that they previously wanted to do, and cheered.

I realize there are many costs in maintaining a steam excursion--costs that are exacerbated by those in my chosen profession. I am less certain railroads explore the possibility that, just because the benefits of a steam excursion cannot be easilty quantified, the benefits may possibly justify the costs.

Alas, I miss the 611.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Alas, I miss the 611.

And who doesn't? Even though I came along way after the steam era, I got to see and ride on 611 on several occasions and felt like I got to be a part of something that most people will now never get to experience.

[espeefoamer]

Even though I live on the west coast, I got to ride one 611 excursion,from Charlotte,to Ashville over Saluda grade.It was totally awesome,especially now that Saluda has been closed.

[JoeKoh]

Gabe
I miss the 611 too.
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

Gabe,

yes, if someone with the railroads could just appreciate the nuances, and the positive impact these things could have.

I've thought that, for instance, if they would recognize the impact of most of the air horns, and how that could be a benefit beyond its use as a warning. It could be kind of like the smell of bread baking is to a bakery. Very few horns are melodious. (Or better yet, put a steam whistle on them[:D]).

http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~colemanc/Bin/Sounds/Steam/oc_1551.wav
http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~colemanc/Bin/Sounds/Steam/slsf152a.wav

[lonewoof]

Oh, PLEASE, may someone at NS hear and heed! I had the luck to ride behind 611 on two occasions, and two other occasions videotaped it from the back of a pickup truck, over 20-25 miles of mad chase along the mostly parallel highway. But tape is tape -- there's no substitute for standing trackside and watching/hearing/feeling that beauty stomp upgrade out of a station stop and pass you...
/Lone

[Modelcar]

Gabe...Well said. Steam would be just great but the railroads could do lots of other movements, actions, happenings, and just PR to their benefits with some things listed above in posts. Eventually it would add to their bottom line. There is a large part of this population that probably is unaware the railroads still haul freight.
I have witnessed 611 many times as it would come to Muncie and stop and visit for several hours on it's tour pulling roughly 20 cars. Was able to get some great photos as it would fire up and pull it's train out of town and really move it out....It was great.

[route_rock]

Yes Gabe people have that look when a piece of Living history comes screaming around a bend at them! Dateline Leclaire Iowa My fiancee and I were sitting on the curve next to the Buffalo Bill museum in LeClaire the day the 261 was coming.A lot of ordinary citizens came out of the buisness district wondering why people were setting up with cameras.Then on she came round the curve whistle blowing!My fiancee has been drug to Freeport by myself to help the Silver Creek&Stephenson railroad.She has ridden the cab of a 1912 Heisler and couldnt see why I and everyone else was excited.We were parked about 15 feet from the tracks sitting on the tailgate of our blazer when she came by.All at once her eyes got big and she said what a lot of non railfans said that day."we have to follow her!"and follow we and all did.The line of fans and non fans that followed the 261 around the Quad Cities that weekend was amazing.Over 1,000 people showed up in Geneseo Il for its Sunday run on the IAIS.People love steam and remember the "good old days".It was such a hit more people want to see steam here not just for special occasions and once in a great while but regular like.Truly the railroads would get a big boost from the support a trip through town would give them,with a steam engine.A lot of people didnt know IAIS ran trains cause they dont see them during the day.Thats the problem too if all you do is run at night then no one knows your there(unless you are trying to sleep)the PR was great for all involved.

[railman]

This is a bit off the 611, but when the 261 came through the Twin Cities with the Grand Excursion, everyone wanted to see the locomotive, the crowds in Minneapolis/ St. Paul were pretty large.

In fact, my brother and I drove to Red Wing to see 261 come through, and also got a treat with the CP steamer, it was hiding out in Red Wing, too. What a sight. Steam rules!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: There is a large part of this population that probably is unaware the railroads still haul freight.

I recall waiting for 611 to come through on several different occasions (NC/SC State line, Tryon, Saluda) and freight trains were getting delayed because of it. On it's last run down Saluda from Asheville, NC to Greenville, SC, a coal train coming down had to stop (longer, they stop anyway and farther west too) for 611 to move out of Saluda and safely down the grade. Railroads are in it for the business! Delayed shipping causes unhappy customers.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Blue Ridge Front

QUOTE: There is a large part of this population that probably is unaware the railroads still haul freight.

I recall waiting for 611 to come through on several different occasions (NC/SC State line, Tryon, Saluda) and freight trains were getting delayed because of it. On it's last run down Saluda from Asheville, NC to Greenville, SC, a coal train coming down had to stop (longer, they stop anyway and farther west too) for 611 to move out of Saluda and safely down the grade. Railroads are in it for the business! Delayed shipping causes unhappy customers.

Pitty there is no way around that--for the railroads. The whole point of my post is that it is difficult to quantify how steam excursions help the business of railroading.

[oskar]

I miss the saluda grade I dont know that much about the 611 except its in Roanoke and it was making big $$ for the NS if I was the chairman for the NS I would put back on the tracks also what happenend to the chessie steamer




kevin

[Anonymous]

How do you know that NS made big $$ on the 611? I was told that both NS and CSX lost big $$ on steam. I so confused, does anyone have the real answer?

[oskar]

somebody told me so I dont really know




kevin

[Anonymous]

NS nor any other big railroad has made big bucks running steam excursions.

Nobody would like to see steam running more than I, but it's not my bucks being spent, and it's not my railroad that has to work its freight trains around the excursion movements, and its not my supervisory staff that has to baby-sit the excursion staff.

IMHO, the UP is doing it the most intelligently today. They run just a few trains in a year's time, and not usually for the railfan trade, but for shippers, etc. NS tried to run too big a schedule - one or two trips every weekend during the season, and while it was wildly popular with the fans it was a PITA for the railroaders who had to handle it.

Old Timer

[gabe]

Two things:

(1) I agree that UP is doing it the right way. If the steamer comes through every day, the true enthusists love it, but the general public would grow numb to it. Do it just enough that everyone knows they are still out there.

(2) I think I remember reading somewhere that NS kept very mumb about the profit/loss of its steam program. My guess though is that most are right in their assertion that it did not make a lot of money and probably lost money.

But that is the whole point of my post--that there are some benefits that aren't quantifiable. Big lawfirms know this. They will often have associates who could make money billing for the firm at $200+ an hour do mandatory pro bono work. Let me assure you, that is just as much of a disruption as keeping a freight in the siding a bit longer to let the excursion pass. The reason big lawfirms do this is because they know it helps the image of the firm. What better way to help the image of a railroad than a steam program?

Gabe

Sorry for the misspellings. It is late, and I have been editing my own work all day and don't feel like doing more of it right now. Mia culpa.

[JoeKoh]

just as we are on this topic rfd-tv ran a show about the N&W 1218 A. 18 wheels of steel.very nice video.(had some good shots of the Js too)
stay safe
Joe

[Anonymous]

I agree it's good PR. Around Chicago it's amazing how many people turn out to see a steam engine go by on a mainline. The only problem is most are Moms & Dads showing the kids what trains used to be like. When most of these people want to ship something it's going to be USPS, UPS, or FedEx and they don't even realize that rail is involved when UPS tracking says "Chicago CACHE". Running excursions for Railfans is great PR too, but I wonder, have the railroads been running excursions for their best shippers? I've heard of the BNSF Employee Appreciation trains. Getting sponsorship might help too. The annual U.P. Cheyene steam excursion has been sponsored by the Denver Post for many years. With all the people lining the tracks, maybe insurance companies would be interested in exchange for a break on the liability insurance.

[Anonymous]

Look what Harley Davidson has done? Do you remember what Harley was like in the 70's - the moving oilcan?

There are 80 million Millenials - children of the baby boomers starting to hit their 20's. What could the railroads do to become important to them?

[tree68]

I remember from my accounting classes a line in the balance sheet called "Goodwill" (or something to that effect) that could carry value. Unfortunately, you can't write a check on the balance, which is probably why railroads (or their beancounters) aren't interested.

Using steam to attract attention, then providing "see what services we provide for you that you didn't even know we did" displays would seem like a no-brainer. Throw in a little Operation LifeSaver and some folks who can speak intelligently to questions the public might have and you have one heck of a PR tool. The ROI would be in the possibility of some increased sales (if they want that) - remember, "the public" is also people who own/run/work at businesses, as well as decreased costs from accidents involving the public.