I have noticed trains with two or more locos up front have crew in front loco and someone sitting at the controls of the other units. Why i wonder is it for braking? rambo1...
The additional manpower in the second cab may be deadheads.
On crews that have an assigned brakeman, l often see them riding a trailing unit. Cabs, especially standard cabs, can get cramped. All the more if the crew works out to an away terminal one day, back home the next. Almost all road crew members working to an away point carry two grips (or one very large grip), one for clothes and one for time tables/rule books, etc. Many also carry a cooler.
Jeff
rambo1 I have noticed trains with two or more locos up front have crew in front loco and someone sitting at the controls of the other units. Why i wonder is it for braking? rambo1...
You don't clearly identify "other units". So, it could be that the other units are pusher or helpers with second crews...yes, even in this diesel age. If in a single lash up at the head end, then it could be so that the guy could watch the train like a brakeman; it could be he is the third or fourth man in a crew and there is no room in the main cab (or the RFE or TM is riding and he is smart to clear out!); he had beans for lunch.
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jeffhergert On crews that have an assigned brakeman, l often see them riding a trailing unit. Cabs, especially standard cabs, can get cramped. All the more if the crew works out to an away terminal one day, back home the next. Almost all road crew members working to an away point carry two grips (or one very large grip), one for clothes and one for time tables/rule books, etc. Many also carry a cooler. Jeff
Johnny
Our rules limit us to four in the cab, never mind getting crowded. Since we're running passenger trains, usually any extra crew heads for the coaches, but sometimes they'll stay in the second unit.
In the fall we have to deal with the combination of disparate older units, significant grades, and leaves on the rails (ie, grease - or so it would seem). Rather than MU two units and take a chance on the second one spinning a wheel and damaging itself undetected, we'll run them separately with a crew in each.
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Not all locations where trains may be tied down account Hours of Service are accessable by highway transportation. These locations are only accessable by rail, either other trains or by hi-rail equipped vehicles. At such locations it would be normal for a train in the correct direction to pick up the HOS crew and for another (or even maybe in rare occasions the same train) to deliver the relief crew. Under US HOS rules, all time subsequent to HOS time is counted as 'Limbo Time' for the HOS crew until their final tie up time. All hours, both on duty and limbo are compensated at the appropriate rate by the company.
Crewmen are allowed to accumulate 30 Hours of Limbo Time in a month. Limbo time accumulated on a trip must be added to the required rest provisions of the HOS law to get the time that the crewmen will be next available for work. If a crew goes HOS at 1300 and gets to their final tie up point at 1500 they have accumulated 2 hours of Limbo Time. Their required 10 hours UNDISTRUBED REST begins at 1500 + the 2 hours of Limbo Time means that the crewman cannot have their telephone rung by the company until 0300 the following day which would nominally permit them to be placed on duty at 0500 (presuming the particular circumstance of the calling location don't require 3 or more hours notice of the call).
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Deggesty jeffhergert On crews that have an assigned brakeman, l often see them riding a trailing unit. Cabs, especially standard cabs, can get cramped. All the more if the crew works out to an away terminal one day, back home the next. Almost all road crew members working to an away point carry two grips (or one very large grip), one for clothes and one for time tables/rule books, etc. Many also carry a cooler. Jeff Jeff, I hope that anyone who has to refer to more than one rule book knows immediately which one to pick up (of, course, I know you have all the rules applicable to your work memorized) when it is necessary. I was reminded of the Superintendent of Buildings and Grounds at my college; he carried two full rings of keys (many of which were similar in appearance), and, many a time, I saw him trying first one key and then another when he had to unlock a door. I had only about six or eight keys in connection with my work at the college, and all but two were different--and I knew which of the similar keys fit which lock.
We carry three rule books: the Operating rules (GCOR for us), Air Brake and Train Handling rules, and Safety rules. Also System Special Instructions and General Orders for same, System Haz-Mat instructions and Time Table(s). When working the extra board I carry 5; Chicago, Iowa, Council Bluffs, Twin Cities, and Kansas City area time tables and General Orders for 17 subdivisions, most of which I at best only operate on a couple miles once in a blue moon. When working my preferred assignment, I can cut that number to 3 time tables and 9 subdivisions.
In addition, we must be aware of Superintendent bulletins that cover local conditions and instructions. For the more pertinent ones, copies are usually carried.
To sometimes find the applicable rule or instruction can sometimes be interesting to say the least. And not just for the worker bees, either. I've seen a couple of instances where managers either couldn't find or wasn't aware of a change in rules or special instructions. (It's hard to keep a straight face at times.)
All of these instructions are now available for download to electronic devices. (Allowable as long as any device that can also be used for communication is be able to have that part deactivated when required by rules and law.) In fact, it's almost getting harder to print out a paper copy. I still prefer paper and books. I just know that about the time I need to look something up, my battery will be dead and I'll be SOL.
I seem to remember some time back in Trains reading that some railroads were going to prohibit crews riding trailing units where they found elevated levels of diesel fumes in trailing cabs.
DeggestyJeff, I hope that anyone who has to refer to more than one rule book knows immediately which one to pick up...
We have one rulebook (NORAC) and one Air Brake and Train Handling book (we use the same one as the shortline we run on as a tenant), but we do have two timetables to maintain, which means keeping up with two sets of bulletin orders, general orders, etc, and so on.
I could keep NORAC in the same 1.5" binder as the timetables, etc, but I have them in a separate, thinner binder.
BaltACD. Crewmen are allowed to accumulate 30 Hours of Limbo Time in a month. Limbo time accumulated on a trip must be added to the required rest provisions of the HOS law to get the time that the crewmen will be next available for work. If a crew goes HOS at 1300 and gets to their final tie up point at 1500 they have accumulated 2 hours of Limbo Time. Their required 10 hours UNDISTRUBED REST begins at 1500 + the 2 hours of Limbo Time means that the crewman cannot have their telephone rung by the company until 0300 the following day which would nominally permit them to be placed on duty at 0500 (presuming the particular circumstance of the calling location don't require 3 or more hours notice of the call).
In re Larry's comment about maximum number of people in a cab--When the Southern was moving the 722 and 630 from Atlanta to Birmingham in December of 1970, I was allowed to ride the cab of the lead engine (722) from Anniston to Birmingham, and I was the fifth person in the cab: the engineer (whom I knew), two firemen (who were constantly baling coal), and Bill Purdie's wife (she sat on the fireman's box) were there. I think that I displaced Bill Purdie; he stood in the gangway, though he may have come into the cab while we were going through Cook Springs Tunnel--I do not remember for sure, but I do know that the engineer shut the engine off just as we went into the tunnel.
Mrs. Purdie had a nice shade of makeup on her face, which I commented on, and when we arrived in Birmingham she told me that my mother would not recognize me.
Deggesty BaltACD. Crewmen are allowed to accumulate 30 Hours of Limbo Time in a month. Limbo time accumulated on a trip must be added to the required rest provisions of the HOS law to get the time that the crewmen will be next available for work. If a crew goes HOS at 1300 and gets to their final tie up point at 1500 they have accumulated 2 hours of Limbo Time. Their required 10 hours UNDISTRUBED REST begins at 1500 + the 2 hours of Limbo Time means that the crewman cannot have their telephone rung by the company until 0300 the following day which would nominally permit them to be placed on duty at 0500 (presuming the particular circumstance of the calling location don't require 3 or more hours notice of the call). What happens if you have to be relieved when you already have accumulated 30 hours of Limbo in a month? Is the time over 30 hours applied to the next month?
There is plenty of advance notification when someone is starting to close in on Limbo Time Maximums; there are now also limits on the maximum number of hours per month and starts per week. Both the company and the individual are penalized for exceeding the limits. I don't know what the specific penalties for the employee are - for the company it is monetary.
BaltACD Deggesty BaltACD. Crewmen are allowed to accumulate 30 Hours of Limbo Time in a month. Limbo time accumulated on a trip must be added to the required rest provisions of the HOS law to get the time that the crewmen will be next available for work. If a crew goes HOS at 1300 and gets to their final tie up point at 1500 they have accumulated 2 hours of Limbo Time. Their required 10 hours UNDISTRUBED REST begins at 1500 + the 2 hours of Limbo Time means that the crewman cannot have their telephone rung by the company until 0300 the following day which would nominally permit them to be placed on duty at 0500 (presuming the particular circumstance of the calling location don't require 3 or more hours notice of the call). What happens if you have to be relieved when you already have accumulated 30 hours of Limbo in a month? Is the time over 30 hours applied to the next month? There is plenty of advance notification when someone is starting to close in on Limbo Time Maximums; there are now also limits on the maximum number of hours per month and starts per week. Both the company and the individual are penalized for exceeding the limits. I don't know what the specific penalties for the employee are - for the company it is monetary.
We've been told there is no penalty for hitting the limbo time maximum for the employee, just a fine for the company for all time over the 30 hours. You get to keep working. A couple of winters ago when it first started, a couple of people did hit the limbo cap. Because it was due to extreme weather conditions, the company was able to get some of the time excused. I remember some who hit the cap saying all of a sudden their limbo time (appears on your tie-up screen) was cut in half, putting them back under the cap.
For the total hours per month, the employee is unable to work until the next month. Kind of like some old union contracts that had a monthly mileage cap, when you hit it you were done for the month. (We still have a "LM" status, which stands for "Laid off-miles." It's only used, rarely, in my area for special circumstances. Our mileage cap provisions were ended before I hired out, according to an old head.) Someone calculated it would be hard to hit the monthly total hour cap under normal circumstances.
MidlandMike I seem to remember some time back in Trains reading that some railroads were going to prohibit crews riding trailing units where they found elevated levels of diesel fumes in trailing cabs.
Under normal circumstances, we aren't supposed to dead head terminal to terminal by train on the trailing units because of this. In the winter when they pull the vans, we still do so.
I've had a couple recent dead heads where it would've been better to ride a train. Words you don't want to hear your driver say at sunset with 80 miles still to go, "I'm not supposed to drive after dark."
On jobs w/ three assigned crewmembers, then most of the time the brkmn will ride in a trailing eng. This is done for a number of reasons. With space in older engs small & cramped, three bodies plus three grips can take up almost all open space making for good triping hazards. If the seat in front of the condr is occuipied most of the time the condr does not have room to flip down the little desk to hold his paperwork--signal forms, gtb's, etc.
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