Should we be a Pro-Rail lobby group?

[Junctionfan]

Hello all,

I was wondering since a lot of people have a great deal of knowlege and experience and others have just a lot of great ideas even fresh ones due to inexperiece and knowledge, that maybe we should form some kind of a Pro-Rail Lobby group and make our positions known to our governement?

[Overmod]

No.

The way to influence the people that matter is to make INDIVIDUAL communications with them -- and preferably trusted relationships. Then make equally INDIVIDUAL suggestions and comments.

The moment there's any 'organized' communication from lobbying groups, members of Congress send it to File 13, hit the delete key, etc. -- and will rapidly zone out any group that becomes more intent or strident to try to get its message across.

Having a 'pro-rail group' set up as a shadow organization, which decides issues that should be given priority, and suggests (but does NOT dictate or provide wording for) what should be in peoples' individual contributions, might be a good thing. But any formal organization wold rapidly become viewed as a mouthpiece for 'special interests'... without the deep pockets available to 'real' special interests. That's the worst of both worlds!

I do invite everyone with reasoned opinions and points of view to find out who their representatives are (don't know how this works for Canadians) and start making friends today...

[jeaton]

[#ditto]

It takes a great deal of time and effort to develope a "consumer advocacy" group that will carry any credability and weight. I am a member of The National Association of Railroad Passengers, and they do get their voice heard in Congress, but I still FAX or email my position on passenger rail service to my congressional rep's.

Jay

[Anonymous]

Overmod, you are kidding, right?

Politicians pay no attention to the individual, unless you happen to be a politician yourself, or a well placed journalist, or maybe a union official, then you may be able to get some sort of individual attention.

Over the many years that I have been able to vote I have contacted my elected representatives a number of times and have gotten only form letters in return. Most people wouldn't know that, but I have received two or three letters from the same person at various times and the only thing different was the date and the subject of my letter! "Thank you for contacting me about xxxxxx." Or some similar verbage.

If you want to make a difference you need to organize. That is why there are farmer's co-ops and labor unions. Also AARP, ACLU, AAA, (which was discussed in another thread) NAACP, AMA, are you beginning to get the picture? The individual has little or no influence in politics or the market. You need a large group of like minded people to make your voice heard.

[Overmod]

Jay -- you'll get much more clout if you send them a real letter (NOT a form letter of any kind, and that includes 'form' wording, which is usually easy to spot), signed in ink. Better still if it has personal touches in its introduction which would induce a secretary to 'pass it on' to the decision maker rather than just shooting out a form-letter "reply"...

I'm tempted to add "and better still if the check for the re-election campaign is enclosed" but that would be cynical.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Overmod

Jay -- you'll get much more clout if you send them a real letter (NOT a form letter of any kind, and that includes 'form' wording, which is usually easy to spot), signed in ink. Better still if it has personal touches in its introduction which would induce a secretary to 'pass it on' to the decision maker rather than just shooting out a form-letter "reply"...

I'm tempted to add "and better still if the check for the re-election campaign is enclosed" but that would be cynical.

You're absolutly right. Over the years I have had the honor of knowing my share of statesmen and politicians [No the definition of a Statesman (person) is not a dead politician]. They have without exception told me that a letter properly written with good form in the hand of the sender on proper paper garners more attention than do 1000 form letters or 10,000 e-mails. This is especially true when you say that this is your first letter and that you have told your friends and neighbors that you have written them. This is true of both major political parties in the states and in all branches of elected government. I know about this because I have done this from time to time. I even got a phone call from my congressional representitive about one that I wrote in another job a few years ago.

[Junctionfan]

I am more interested in order to educate the public than politicians. The voter is the root of the decision making process. I say we could organize and start to write editorials in the papers, magazines other than Trains and Model Railroader, and other things for now. See what happens from there. We provide each other with information so we can give out truthful and accurate information to the public and make them do most of the contacting of politicians.

[Anonymous]

Mark,

I think that you have just confirmed my statement that "The individual has little or no influence in politics ..." Perhaps I should have said the ordinary person, or in labor terms, the rank and file. I and most of the people I know have day jobs and families to support. We don't have the time or the money to travel to DC to get to know the staff and the office-holder, and nobody is going to pay us to do it, or even cover our expenses. And any contribution any of us could make would be lost in the piles of all the other dollar bills.

"Mark Hemphill from Trains Magazine" will surely command a lot more attention than "Dennis Wicks, a programmer from some place in Illinois."

Just out of idle curiosity, what position did you hold that people were seeking to influence you?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

I am more interested in order to educate the public than politicians. The voter is the root of the decision making process. I say we could organize and start to write editorials in the papers, magazines other than Trains and Model Railroader, and other things for now. See what happens from there. We provide each other with information so we can give out truthful and accurate information to the public and make them do most of the contacting of politicians.

Laudable and well intentioned to be sure. However in the realm of the public the most respected and effective advocate is the individual that has the courage of her/his convictions.

[MP57313]

What aspect of pro-rail are you persuing? More passenger trains (service)? Greater access to taxpayer funds to be used to upgrade the tracks (capital grants)? Relief from exhaust emissions regulations or other environmental rules?

Some "pro rail" views might be pro-rail-industry but not necessarily beneficial to the population at large.

[tree68]

MP57313 brings up a good point - "Pro-Rail Lobby Group" is a bit nebulous. Simply being "for" things railroad will attract little attention, and that might just be because such a stand has little substance. In fact, you might even get opposition from within the railroad community. F'rinstance, as we've discussed many times, even the railroad industry seems to be anti-Amtrak.

Identifying a specific agenda is paramount for this type of effort. If a number of people with the same agenda all contact their representative, develop that relationship Mark discussed, and sell their point, then something will be accomplished.

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP57313

What aspect of pro-rail are you persuing? More passenger trains (service)? Greater access to taxpayer funds to be used to upgrade the tracks (capital grants)? Relief from exhaust emissions regulations or other environmental rules?

Some "pro rail" views might be pro-rail-industry but not necessarily beneficial to the population at large.

Yes and some "pro rail" views might be seen by some of us as anti-rail-industry. We agree we like trains, but there are a lot of things we don't agree on.

Some examples:
Public vs private ownership
Some think competition to rail should be heavily taxed, others don't.
More regulation vs less regulation

[Junctionfan]

Better Amtrak service and funding for it; safe rail service; less on highway building and more on railroad construction-other general things that we basically all can agree on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Better Amtrak service and funding for it; safe rail service; less on highway building and more on railroad construction-other general things that we basically all can agree on.

Why would I want to be a member of such a group? Why not join one of the many existing and fairly well funded rail advocacy groups? NARP, it's state counterparts, NRHS, NRLHS, or the man y public transportation advocacy groups. Many have Washington offices that are staffed and already working on problems. Funding an advocacy group is expensive. I realize, based upon your earlier postings that you advocate a socialist view, but the government won't provide funding of this sort.

LC

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Better Amtrak service and funding for it; safe rail service; less on highway building and more on railroad construction-other general things that we basically all can agree on.

Not necessairly all of them.

Freight railroads should pay for their own facilities. There should be no government money except that governments should pay their share for overcrossing, underpasses and at grade crossing (most of which should be eliminated eventually)

Philosophically I would like to see rail transit privatized, but I realize that this is not realistic. Private "public" transit has virtually never been finacially successful and transit does serve a public good in some cases and so is worth subsidizing in many areas, although not where a highway will do a job better.

The automobile on the highway is the most flexible mass transit system yet devised. Travelers are free to choose their own routes and schedules.

Environmental concerns must be considered, but forcing freight and people onto rail may not be the best choice for the environment in every circumstance.

Regulation to and ovesight to promote safety is needed, but is counter productive if it becomes overbearing and too bureaucratic.

[Overmod]

Dennis --

You'd be surprised how little it takes to get a Congressman to pay attention to you.

I established a good working relationship with mine by asking him about digital television development. Representatives are probably best to start (as they're closer to 'local folks' -- look to see what committees your representative(s) are on, and see if you as a programmer (and doubtless IEEE/ACM member, etc) can contribute something to help 'em do what they do. Then GET TO KNOW THE OFFICE STAFF both locally and in Washington. Get them on your side, which isn't hard, and they in turn can ensure that your information goes right to the eyes and ears of the personage. I don't mean this to sound manipulative... but it's an easy and fairly guaranteed way of getting the access, instead of the form letter, if you're in fact a sensible and concerned 'constituent.'

It also helps if you can wangle a publicity opportunity -- as in writing letters to local editors or papers, befriend reporters, etc., come up with something that affects your representative's affairs or is known to interest him... and then call up and invite him to show. You now have a built-in warm-market introduction, name recognition, etc. -- do you need a better start?

These are all "old" business-leadership and fund-raising techniques. If you have any experience with grant financing, particularly SBIR/STTR to government agencies, you'll already recognize the frequent-and-often communications opportunities that make things actually happen... this isn't really different.

[Anonymous]

Ain't it grand

[Randy Stahl]

I nominate trainfinder22 as our spokesman .
randy

[Anonymous]

I'll second that!!!

We could use mookie's powers of persuasion !

[jeaton]

Overmod-

I don't send form letters, and I don't I don't use the U.S. Mail. As you may recall, there were some incidents involving mail and the popularity of that method of communicating to member of Congress has dropped. Those folks inside the Beltway are as nervous as a cat in a roomful of rocking chairs.

When I write, I don't propose either grand or small schemes, rather I will indicate my position on something that is before congress and urge my representatives to take that position. Chances are that at best, I get put on a tally being kept by a staff member. So be it. I also vote in every election and I am a dues paying member or contributor to organizations that advocate positions I favor.

As for forming a lobby or advocacy group, anybody who wants to-go for it! However, given that the many regulars on this forum, myself included, probably couldn't agree on where to break for lunch, I wonder what chance there would be for agreement on an agenda.

[Anonymous]

The whole thing is wrapped up in the public perception of railroading in its entirety. This includes your elected representtatives. The first thing that happens when you bring up trains(one thing,) or railroading(another thing,) they hear circus caliopes go off in their heads. Then they giggle. They go on to say that they remember taking the Waba***o Florida, and that their grandpa has the last Santa Fe in Kansas. There no longer is a connection between the public and the railroads. If they take a train it's Amtrak or Metra. But that doesn't seem to be a railroad to them. Just an operator of trains. Here in Knox the depot is gone and no one knows what the name of the railroad is. They think it's the BN because of run-through power going by. Some people don't think trains run anymore at all. Where's the Super Chief? They think main lines are hiking paths in te summer and snowmobiling tracks in the winter. I can go on but that's for another thread. We have to look at ourselves as well as quasi representatives of railroading and approach key people like business people.
Mitch