Barr Yard/CSX Chicago

[MP173]

Is Barr Yard in Chicago a hump or flat switched?

Ed

[CShaveRR]

Always flat-switched...never was a hump yard.

[MP173]

That explains why so many of CSX's manifest trains originate out of Clearing.  By my count out of the 25 or so CSX trains into or out of Chicago about 10 are to or from Clearing. 

Gotta read the article in Trains on Clearing Yard. 

Ed

 

[PNWRMNM]

Ed,

Another reason for CSX to originate trains from Clearing is that the western connections are delivering CSX and NS and BRC cars, probably unblocked, to Clearing in trainload quantity. BRC runs them over the hump, pulls some hump tracks puts them in the departure yard and voila, a blocked train for CSX or NS.

That was the original concept of Clearing and the logic is still good even if the number of players is greatly reduced now as compared to "in the day".

Mac

[BaltACD]

PNWRMNM

Ed,

Another reason for CSX to originate trains from Clearing is that the western connections are delivering CSX and NS and BRC cars, probably unblocked, to Clearing in trainload quantity. BRC runs them over the hump, pulls some hump tracks puts them in the departure yard and voila, a blocked train for CSX or NS.

That was the original concept of Clearing and the logic is still good even if the number of players is greatly reduced now as compared to "in the day".

Mac

 

While the number of players has decreased - the multiplicity of each players routes has remained.  When just the B&O was a player, it's routing's went East to Willard and beyond.  Now with CSX (incorporating B&O, C&O, CEI, Monon, LN, ACL & SAL), not only do the routing's go East towards Willard, but South toward Evansville & Florida, Northeast toward Grand Rapids & Detroit.  NS routing would follow similar divergent route end or reclassification points.  Similarly the Western carriers, while down to less than a handful, still service multiple significant destination areas as their predecessor carriers did.

[MP173]

Living just outside Chicago in NW Indiana and passing over Clearing Yard a couple times a month on Cicero Avenue...I am just amazed at the size and scope of Clearing...plus all the freight moving out of Chicago eastbound. 

Someone has put together a pretty big plan for moving all this freight thru Chicago.  Granted, the number of carriers has been reduced, but as Mac and Balt indicate, the complexities of these movements are still there.  I guess my question regarding Clearing vs Barr is are these moves flexible or not.

For instance, there will be BNSF or UP cars coming out of Barr heading to Selkirk on Q382.  There will probably be BNSF or UP cars moving to Selkirk on Q386 out of Clearing.  Both have same destination.  But is the determination of Barr or Clearing based on the origin terminal from BNSF or UP or does this shift on a daily basis due to traffic levels?

Is it fixed in stone, or computer code that Galesburg, for instance, always loads Selkirks to Barr or Clearing, or is it "just get them out of here" on the next available Chicago train?  My guess is there is a plan which can be modified as business levels dictate...but is that on a daily or weekly basis?

This industry is fascinating when you start to think about how things move. 

Years ago C&O ran 3 or 4 trains daily between Cincy and Chicago (each way) thru Indiana.  I watched these turn the corner at Wellsboro from a C&O branch to B&O mainline.  Today there is but a daily Q500/Q501 pair between the two cities. 

Has that business:

1.  Routed another way (possibly Indy)

2.  Disappeared

3.  Moved to intermodal

4.  Being moved more efficient

These are the things about this industry that makes me wonder ....just what are in those cars and where are they going?

ed

[BaltACD]

MP173

Living just outside Chicago in NW Indiana and passing over Clearing Yard a couple times a month on Cicero Avenue...I am just amazed at the size and scope of Clearing...plus all the freight moving out of Chicago eastbound. 

Someone has put together a pretty big plan for moving all this freight thru Chicago.  Granted, the number of carriers has been reduced, but as Mac and Balt indicate, the complexities of these movements are still there.  I guess my question regarding Clearing vs Barr is are these moves flexible or not.

For instance, there will be BNSF or UP cars coming out of Barr heading to Selkirk on Q382.  There will probably be BNSF or UP cars moving to Selkirk on Q386 out of Clearing.  Both have same destination.  But is the determination of Barr or Clearing based on the origin terminal from BNSF or UP or does this shift on a daily basis due to traffic levels?

Is it fixed in stone, or computer code that Galesburg, for instance, always loads Selkirks to Barr or Clearing, or is it "just get them out of here" on the next available Chicago train?  My guess is there is a plan which can be modified as business levels dictate...but is that on a daily or weekly basis?

This industry is fascinating when you start to think about how things move. 

Years ago C&O ran 3 or 4 trains daily between Cincy and Chicago (each way) thru Indiana.  I watched these turn the corner at Wellsboro from a C&O branch to B&O mainline.  Today there is but a daily Q500/Q501 pair between the two cities. 

Has that business:

1.  Routed another way (possibly Indy)

2.  Disappeared

3.  Moved to intermodal

4.  Being moved more efficient

These are the things about this industry that makes me wonder ....just what are in those cars and where are they going?

ed

 

I am not intimately familiar with CSX operations in and around Chicago.  I would suspect that Clearing is used for the interline freight CSX handles with other carriers, both in the Chicago Switching District and to destinations outside Chicago on the foreign lines.  I am guessing the Barr Yard is used mostly for CSX business that is served by the former B&O Chicago Terminal, which had extensive trackage South and East of the Loop. 

I am aware that there are run-through trains to various carriers that go directly to and from each carrier without using either Clearing or Barr Yard. 

For the last decade or more, the carriers have gotten together with each other and optimized their interchange routings for various Origin-Destination pairs to minimize overall mileage and handlings for all carriers involved in the movements.

[n012944]

Barr gets several cuts of traffic from for other carriers a day.  From the top of my head:

BNSF,

GALCSX from Galesburg with interchange traffic for everywhere on CSX

UP,

QNPSKP, 

From North Platte, for the most part it is a solid Selkirk train.

YPRCU,

From Proviso, switch traffic.  Traffic bound for the B&OCT, Grand Rapids Lafayette or Ottawa.  There will also be some traffic bound for Willard or Danville, that came off the Chicago terminal on the UP side.

BRC,

2 transfer cuts a day,  Y132 and Y135.  The traffic on these is bound for the same places as the YPRCU.

IHB,

1 to 2 transfer cust a day from Blue Island.  Much like the BNSF, it can have traffic for anywhere on CSX.

Of course there are mulitple yard jobs that work the Chicago terminal, that are based and work out of Barr.

[MP173]

Thanks for the reply n012944.

By Ottawa, I assume you are referring to the ex Rock Island community  in Illinois.  That is a mystery on the CSX map to me...there must be quite a bit of Illinois River basin traffic (stone or sand perhaps) coming out of that area, also chemicals from the Channahon area. 

Is the Ottawa business handled by a yard run out of Barr? 

While I am at it, the article on Clearing Yard shows area east of Cicero Avenue and south of the East Departure Yard as "CSX Yard".  Last week while passing over Cicero Avenue and looking east, I noticed considerable number of empty intermodal cars....is that solely a support yard for Bedford Park intermodal yard?

How are intermodals out of Bedford Park routed,  west to IHB and south or east to CSX or other route?  With the CN swap to CSX, the routing east from Clearing could be very viable, avoiding the NS or UP trackage rights.  Is that in the works?

Ed

[n012944]

I have been told by several people that the New Rock subdivision is the most profitable sub on CSX when compared on a $$ per mile bases.  I am not sure of the truth to it however, there are over 50 customers between Joliet and Utica, with lots of silica and chemical traffic.   There is one train each way from Barr to Ottawa, Q557 is the westbound, Q556 the eastbound.  There are also several locals that work on the New Rock sub each day.  

As for the yard at Clearing, I think that would be Martin Yard, which really is just a storage yard for Bedford Park.  Intermodals out of Bedford Park, for the most part operate out of the west end.  The come out onto the IHB at 71st st, and run over the IHB to CSX dispatched tracks at Blue Island tower.  It is a bit of a sore spot with me, as the section of track between Blue Island and McCook is owned and maintained by the B&OCT, however it is dispatched by the iHB.  Not the smartest moves IMHO.  Traffic out of Bedford Park that goes south to Danvillle, somethimes will come out of the east end of Bedford.  It operates over the BRC to 80th st, then turns south on the UP Villa Grove subdivision.  CSX has trackage rights between 80th st and Dolton tower, then has 50% ownership from Dolton to Woodland Jct, where its own line goes to Danville, Nashville and futher south.  

The purchase of the CN Eldson sub is huge in my opinoin.  There will be a connection put in at Thorton Jct, where the Eldson sub crosses the Villa Grove, and one at Vermont st, just north of Blue Island tower where the Eldson sub and the Blue Island sub are right next to each other.  Traffic off of the Villa Grove that is bound for the BRC, Bedford Park and 59th st yard will use the connection at Thorton Jct.  Bedford Park and BRC traffic will stay on the Eldson sub to Hayford Jct, where it crosses the BRC.  Bedford traffic will go into the east end, while Clearing traffic will go into Clearing at Hayford.  59th traffic will get onto the Blue Island sub at Vermont st and go north up that to the yard.  It will get traffic away from UPs Yard Center, which is a huge choke point.  BRC traffic from the east, via the Garret sub, will get onto the Eldson sub at Vermont st, and use it to Hayford.  I am not sure if the eastbound/westbound Bedford traffic will stay on the IHB or go to the Eldson.  For the fans that like to hangout at Blue Island, it should pick up quite a bit in traffic once the change over is completed.

[MP173]

I read most of the STB filing and was really impressed with the coordination between CSX and CN.  This could really be huge for CSX in Chicago and probably for CN in Memphis.  With the EJE line around Chicago, CN really didnt need the line from Thornton Jct into the city except for a few daily moves.  What a great fit for CSX as it eliminates all those trackage rights movements for the Clearing trains via NS or UP. 

When do you anticipate these changes to be made?

Also tucked away in that document was the trackage rights eastward to Wellsboro for up to four trains daily.  Is it possible I will see Q010 charging up Valpo hill at 7am with all those brown trailers?  I doubt that will occur as 7-8am is pretty heavy for CN and the single track is a choke point. 

It sure seems that CN has taken the lead in addressing the Chicago issue.  Now CSX is following suit.

Ed

[n012944]

I am hearing Febuary for the Eldson sub transfer.