Illinois To Increase Truck Tolls

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

I have seen toll rates climb over the years Mr. Hemphill. I will say that I dont buy the Illinois Govenor's explaination that "trucks cause more damage than cars"

I have a fist wrapped around a hot cup of coffee as I ponder how best to explain my postion.

I remember that Chicago has rebuilt the Interstates in the Gary Indiana to Oak Forest area. Speicfically the I-80 corridor from the I-57 to I-65 south. I spent alot of time on the I-294 between Oak Forest to Desplaines as some of my loads orginated and terminated at the FFE yard in that area. Other times it was thru traffic to Schaumburg and beyond to Wisconsion.

The toll roads are rather well maintained. I believed that they probably had to go over it several times a decade. But mostly it was crack fixing and pothole patching. I also experienced alot of IDOT salting (there are modern compounds in use but all understands "Salt") in winter.

I used to enjoy sliding on the ice because the salt they use would just melt the ice briefly. Other states would either wait for the wintry blast to pass to plow/salt or apply sand/salt on the bridges.

The highways in that area are usaully gridlocked somewhere from dawn to dusk. The constant stopping and starting to pay toll every few miles and the exits usually went into surface streets which sometimes "Backed up"

At night time the trucks roll. It seems all the world goes thru there at one time or another. The regular interstates are being rebuilt from the pounding. The toll ways are in good shape.

The worst thing about that area is I-55. From Below I 80 all the way into Calumet is very bad. It seems that they have not finished the work started many years ago. Or is literallly rebuilding a project that is supposed to be completed sometime ago.

I dont think a big truck (18wheeler) that spends time in traffic at 20 mph or less causes any damage more than usual. 8 times out of ten it is worth a few hours stopping and going thru the Chicago Greater area. Rarely do I breeze thru at cruise speed with a convoy of other trucks all intent on leaving town while the traffic is not yet awake and going to commute.

What I do remember that I have to check the truck twice. Before Chicago for food, fuel and money (Quarters, dimes and nickels for the tolls) and after chicago for spilled coffee, broken freight, loose wheel nuts and in general damage cleanup in the cab. It gets very bumpy there. That has not changed much over the years.

What did change is the use of the "electronic toll" where one had a transponder in the cab that would communicate with the toll booth and not stop. This removes the need to carry toll money in some cases. With it also the need to worry about toll charges since it is billed directly to the company.

They are welcome to raise rates and charges onto the big trucks as they have done for many years. Eventually it will get too expensive to haul cargo and still make a profit. The paperwork involved in tracking business expenses as well as the amounts of monies tied up in the trip itself eats at the profit.

Drivers worry about tolls because they must draw a "Comcheck" so they can use the company money to pay the tolls. Or they need to pay the toll using own personal money and contact the company with the reciepts and paperwork to recover the money from the company. These two alternatives to electronic tolls are a burden in both the company and driver.

The Governor needs to do nothing but count the number of trucks and cars that use the tolls to get to where they need to go. And use the money to get the roads built right the first time.

I base this on a personal observation that it is cheaper in the short term to pave 4 inches of "Blacktop" onto a crumbling and failing concrete roadway. Eventually the cracks show up in the blacktop and it too fails. Another layer is applied until the substructure is ground down as not to be able to support anykind of weight. Then the entire section all the way to bare dirt must be ripped out and repaved.

No wonder the Gov sees that the highway dept is constantly asking for money to fix the roads (Again)

I see airport runways are very thick and strong. They are enormusly expensive to build but I have yet to see a "orange barrell" on any of these at O' Hare and other major airports. Build em big and strong one time and they will hold up.

I also base my position on the weight of a tractor trailer on 18 wheels. A fully loaded and properly scaled truck works out to about 12,000 pounds on the steer, 34,000 on the tandems and 34,000 on the trailer.

I think that works out to about 4,500 pounds per tire on the road. Of that tire there is approx a square foot of material that is on contact with the road. I think the ground pressure is not much more than what is exerted by a Human foot. Hence the old saying "If you can walk on that you can drive on it" Most of the time trucks are not fully loaded. They come close but the sheer numbers of delivery trucks hauling bread, newspaper, pallets etc etc etc that do not weigh very much and not much bigger than pickups as Chicago goes about it's daily business.

The rest of Illinois seemed to be ok to me. The problem of the split speed limits and spotty traffic problems are not revelant here.

So. If the Gov wants his new toll rates he can have em... but use the &^%$ money to build big strong highways that will stand up to the traffic than simply paving a layer of Blacktop to soothe angry car commuters whose coffee get's spilled on the bigger bumps and cracks. (Some trucks today actually ride BETTER than most cars =)

I am editing this post to include something he said in the linked article:

"One semi truck does more damage than 10,000 cars," said Gov. Blagojevich.

Funny. 10,000 cars adds up to 375 big trucks. Take a car at 3000 pounds, multiply it by 10,000 then divide the result by 80,000 pounds per truck.

Now, I like to figure out how much toll revenue he would have taken in with them 10,000 cars and one truck. I figure it will be a nice sum of money to fix the road.

[Anonymous]

I still dont think any of the money from tolls goes anywhere but Springfield politicians. Somebody must need a new Bentley down there. I voted for good ol' Rod last eleciton, and I am not sad I did, but raising tolls is not something I want to see happen. I however would like to see a lot of Ryan's old programs $#@!canned. Anyway, anyone seen any progress on all of those RR projects that were supposed to ease congestion on Chicago's RR system? Like the building of an overpass at 127th and Cicero (right by my parents house) and another at 115th and Cicero? Anyone remember the pain we all went through when the CSX/IHB built the overpass over 111th St. in Oak Lawn?

Matt

[Anonymous]

just what we need....more tolls.

the Pennsylvania turnpike just went up over 40%, the Kansas turnpike went up about 20% and now Illinois wants to increase their tolls too.

the funny thing is, the governor of Ohio is calling for lowering the truck tolls and increasing the truck speed limit on the Ohio turnpike due to all the trucks taking highway 20 and 30 to avoid all the tolls. all the people in the small towns are complaning about the increased truck traffic. the turnpike comission has agreed to increase the truck speed limit to 65, but no word yet on the lowered tolls.

the Governor of Illinois knows absolutely nothing about trucks. for the past 2 years the state legislature has passed bills to do away with the split speed limits, that study after study has proved are unsafe. he has vetoed them both times. he keeps quoting the same old tired line that a truck traveling faster would cause more damage in a wreck. hello! if all the traffic is moving at the same speed there are FAR fewer wrecks!

then he goes and increases the taxes on trucks and trucking companies, causing hundreds of trucking companies and thousands of trucking jobs to leave the state.

i dont know what this guy has against trucks, but i think it's time he was removed before he destroys the economy of a state that is very dependent on trucks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

I have seen toll rates climb over the years Mr. Hemphill. I will say that I dont buy the Illinois Govenor's explaination that "trucks cause more damage than cars"


I also base my position on the weight of a tractor trailer on 18 wheels. A fully loaded and properly scaled truck works out to about 12,000 pounds on the steer, 34,000 on the tandems and 34,000 on the trailer.

I think that works out to about 4,500 pounds per tire on the road. Of that tire there is approx a square foot of material that is on contact with the road. I think the ground pressure is not much more than what is exerted by a Human foot. Hence the old saying "If you can walk on that you can drive on it"

I am editing this post to include something he said in the linked article:

"One semi truck does more damage than 10,000 cars," said Gov. Blagojevich.

Funny. 10,000 cars adds up to 375 big trucks. Take a car at 3000 pounds, multiply it by 10,000 then divide the result by 80,000 pounds per truck.

Now, I like to figure out how much toll revenue he would have taken in with them 10,000 cars and one truck. I figure it will be a nice sum of money to fix the road.

I think the one salient point made here by HighIron is the relative weight per tire on a typical 80,000 lb truck/trailer. If we take 4,500 lbs per tire or 17,000 lbs per axle as normal max averages, why do we even focus on GVW when it is the weight per tire/axle that determines relative road damage? Which of the following would exert more weight on the road per tire: HighIron's 80,000 lb GVW rig running a steer axle and two sets of tandems, or a 160,000 lb "b-train" rig running on a steer axle, helper axle, a set of drive tandems, and two sets of quad axles? The latter is averaging about 3,700 lbs per tire, or about 800 lbs per tire less than HighIron's "legal" 18 wheeler, and with air adustable shocks on all axles that 160,000 lbs can be fairly spread over the entire axle consist to prevent too much weight being borne by one axle set.

What has this got to do with railroads? As we've all pointed out on this forum, the Class I's are more and more dependent on the truckers getting the cargo from the point of origin to the railhead, and instead of the Class I's lobbying to get the truckers GVW max's lowered (in weight), they shouuld instead support an elimination of GVW and replace that standard with a max weight per tire standard, which would allow more gross weight to be spread on more axles. Isn't is possible that if a trucker could carry tow fully loaded containers instead of just one to the intermodal railhead, there would be some savings that would accrue, and the railroads could actually raise the rates per container and still allow the truckers to get their increased share as well as resulting in lower overall costs to the shipper?

As BNSF is starting to realize ("We Love Truckers"), the truckers are not the enemy, and anything the Class I's can do to help the truckers become more efficient can only have a positive effect on the RR's bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Good! Maybe that will reduce the number of 53ft trailers on the road that were designed for 40 footers.

I think the number of those immense rigs on the tollways are a serious danger to motorists. I say raise the tolls for the trucks but give 'em a big discount to run between 10pm and 5am.

Most of those things aren't carrying freight to rail terminals for interstate transport, anyhow. True, intermodal is good for all, but most of the truck traffic on the tollways doesn't look like intermodal to me.

Rich Witt

[Anonymous]

I wish North Carolina would start using tolls on the interstates. Any more on I-26, over half of the cars on the road are out of state, mostly South Carolina and Tennessee. It seems like there are as many from Indiana, Kentucky and Ohio also. Just this past week, another idiot from South Carolina (no offense to any one from there, but this guy was just stupid) decided to have a case of beer in his car with several cans already empty, fly down a 3 mile 6% grade of interstate with many curves in excess of 100 mph, clip an SUV and go over the guard rail doing multiple flips and landing 75 feet down the bank taking out several tops of trees in the process. He was thrown out the back glass of his truck, but managed to walk back up the hill with the case of beer in his hand[banghead]

I understand that most of these people are either on vacation in the mountains or are just passing through going to or coming back from the beach and drive as they should, but it seems many are just joy-riding for the heck of it (and with gas this high?) But it seems that with all of this out of state traffic they should have to pay some sort of toll since the North Carolina taxpayer has to pay for road rehabilitation that is due mostly to all of these out of state drivers. I think it would also help minimize cases like I mentioned above from happening in the future, serving as a deterrent for those that don't want to pay and as a checkpoint. Just a thought I've had for awhile.

Oh, and more intermodal service! Help relieve interstate truck traffic. Gotta mention that![:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by NightCrawler

just what we need....more tolls.

the Pennsylvania turnpike just went up over 40%, the Kansas turnpike went up about 20% and now Illinois wants to increase their tolls too.

the funny thing is, the governor of Ohio is calling for lowering the truck tolls and increasing the truck speed limit on the Ohio turnpike due to all the trucks taking highway 20 and 30 to avoid all the tolls. all the people in the small towns are complaning about the increased truck traffic. the turnpike comission has agreed to increase the truck speed limit to 65, but no word yet on the lowered tolls.

the Governor of Illinois knows absolutely nothing about trucks. for the past 2 years the state legislature has passed bills to do away with the split speed limits, that study after study has proved are unsafe. he has vetoed them both times. he keeps quoting the same old tired line that a truck traveling faster would cause more damage in a wreck. hello! if all the traffic is moving at the same speed there are FAR fewer wrecks!

then he goes and increases the taxes on trucks and trucking companies, causing hundreds of trucking companies and thousands of trucking jobs to leave the state.

i dont know what this guy has against trucks, but i think it's time he was removed before he destroys the economy of a state that is very dependent on trucks.

Highways 20 and 30 are actually a bit faster than the toll road. I used to run it virtually all the time. It is quiet, little towns and usually good traffic meaning little or no problems. On the toll road you had to worry about a wide variety of things. The 55 mph being the first thing. IF Im paying good money to go 55 then Ill get on 20 and 30 Thank you. Usually companies have to reconcile the tickets of the tolls with the logbooks and sometimes it gets expensive when you just sent 300 trucks thru Ohio from the west coast for the eastern markets.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrwitt

Good! Maybe that will reduce the number of 53ft trailers on the road that were designed for 40 footers.

I think the number of those immense rigs on the tollways are a serious danger to motorists. I say raise the tolls for the trucks but give 'em a big discount to run between 10pm and 5am.

Most of those things aren't carrying freight to rail terminals for interstate transport, anyhow. True, intermodal is good for all, but most of the truck traffic on the tollways doesn't look like intermodal to me.

Rich Witt

There are two Railyards dedicated to Intermodal along the tollway. O'Hare with it's Passenger and Airfreight is also in the same area. I believe UPS, Fedex all have major sorting facilities in the same area. Trucks all around.

The other problem is traffic from Wisconsion (The Dakota, Montana and Pacific Northwest Freight) needs to go that way to get to the points east of Chicago. There are no really good ways to get past that area without going out of route. The same situation remains from the east coast going to the NW of the country.

The rest of the traffic simply bypasses Chicago and the tolls whenever possible. Or runs thru at night on purpose.

I am sorry that your perception that trucks are a danger and in the hands of a unprofessional they can be. The reason we are supposed to go thru all the testings, rules and regulations and so forth is to be able to avoid the commuters and keep the rig on the road in bad weather.

I think cars are more dangerous because you cannot count on anything when they are around. You gotta watch em close with about 3 different plans (Escape routes) ready to execute at a moment's notice.

You did touch on a important point, there are 53 foot trailers designed for 40 footers. That is one reason why there are skilled drivers behind the wheel. Sometimes the road needs to be fixed to accomodate... if that is not possible we make do with what we got. You would probably not believe where we can put a 53 footer.

The idea of multipule trailers takes up too much room. And discounts for night time really does not matter as we have to deal with Chicago and all it's good and bad things anyhow.

[TH&B]

Some truck drivers talk like they are experts in building and maintaining roadways. They are experts at managing a truck or a fleet but how would they know anything about the costs of hiway upkeep, they have nothing to do with that. The railroad companys know exactly what the costs are to build and maintain railroads because that is what they do. Of course not every railroad employee does and trainpersonel realy know nothing about costs realating to the equipement and fuel because they are just employees.
But I as an average citizen who may not even own or drive a car knows about as much about hiway building and maintanance costs as a profesional truck driver.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I agree completely Mark. This toll is just the tip of the iceberg for truckers.

Ever since the Carter administration, it has been fiscal policy to keep inflation under control. This is totally non partisan. It is part of the Greenspan plan, and Mr greenspan had been reappointed by Presidents from both parties.

The problem is that we have managed to sweep inflation under the rug, partially by allowing gasoline prices to remain artificially low. This economy runs on oil. Now there is a noticible bulge under the rug. Nobody wants to be in the Oval Office when when the public figures it out, and the mess has to be cleaned up.

This country has run on cheap oil way too long, and become way too dependent on trucking. Crude oil prices are at all time highs, and pump prices are sure to follow. The price of everything will go up, so hang on to your wallet. The process has already started, I know, I live on a fixed income.

[Puckdropper]

About split speed limits. Do they really cause that much trouble? I can see how they would, as changing lanes is one of the most dangerous things you can do on the interstate. (Every driver here knows about blind spots.)

I find trucks to be more dangerous to cars than other cars, partially because of their sheer (sp?) size. I've had to hit the brake and head towards the shoulder to avoid both cars and trucks. Sometimes, just like railroads (an attempt to relate the two subjects), truck drivers need to travel unfamiliar territory a few times before they can handle it properly. For example, if you drive truck over by Granville, IL, it's to your advantage to wait until after (westbound) Mark-o's to think about changing lanes. It's too dangerous to do so in that area, as you have hills and an intersection in the middle of them.

[Wdlgln005]

In theory, it's nice to have trucks moving at the same speed as cars. If everybody obeys, traffic would move at the same pace. Trouble is, that never happens. The state DOT's need about twice the tooper force to enforce the law. I'd like to see troopers work in All parts of the state- no freebe at the city line.

The roads in TN are supposed to be the best in the nation. We also have a problem with bids going over the estimated cost of roadwork. One advantage we have is in not doing state bonds to fund roads. No tax money goes to pay off the old work. Money goes into the pot & gets spent when the money is collected. Perhaps the main difference comes in when you consider road maintenance as opposed to new construction. Most of the roads I drive on have smooth pavement. There's plenty of construction for new roads to keep workers going for several years.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

Some truck drivers talk like they are experts in building and maintaining roadways. They are experts at managing a truck or a fleet but how would they know anything about the costs of hiway upkeep, they have nothing to do with that. The railroad companys know exactly what the costs are to build and maintain railroads because that is what they do. Of course not every railroad employee does and trainpersonel realy know nothing about costs realating to the equipement and fuel because they are just employees.
But I as an average citizen who may not even own or drive a car knows about as much about hiway building and maintanance costs as a profesional truck driver.

First off... I am not a trained "Expert" in the field of highway construction. However.. I have been driving long enough in the same areas of the country to actually witness almost day to day life spans of the highway.

6 years ago in Arkansas the interstates were beginning to crumble. These concrete plates were rocking whenever the rig crosses em. The water and cold weather does the rest. They have been for the last 3 years or so replacing the 1 foot thick concrete on gravel bed plate with Apsalt that is near 3 feet thick in some areas on rolled dirt with some gravel below.

Pennyslyvania (I can never spell it right) had I-81 that between Harrisburg PA to Scranton PA get completely demolished down to bare dirt on both directions, removed and a new interstate built with specialized methods of using concrete in better ways than just the old plates we all know and love. The concrete roads just got smashed over a long period of time and became dangerous to drive on as the plates were so bad that you would break leaf springs and axles as well as damage dash board componets and shake the freight.

As a side note this happened about the early 90's drivers were shifting from companies with older trucks to those who had "Air-Ride" eqiuiptment and "Conventonal" Tractors (Not Cab-over-engine COE) because the roads were so bad as to hurt you depending on what you drove.

Some states faced with crumbling concrete highways chose to simply apply a layer of blacktop over it to give a smooth ride. But unfortunately these same roads began to fail as the black top broke up due to the stressed concrete plates underneath. It was a "Pallative" solution to bad roads that only works temporarily.

I used to build driveways and these are not roads... however the material costs for concrete, aggregate and Blacktop (Apsalt) are almost very consistent if you built a small area it will cost a little bit. If you built a Interstate mile or 100, your costs will rise with the amount of material, men, equiptment and labor time needed to do the work.

Going to the subject of Toll roads, we in some cases plan on using them.. For example the PA turnpike... while this road is somewhat expensive to use in tolls, it is far more stable (Grades, tunnels traffic etc) than say Morgantown, Cumberland or State College and Allentown. Much safer in winter weather as well. We would use this Turnpike because during bad winter weather they do a good job keeping it safe.

I also wanted to touch on a observation that some toll bridges and roads have already long since paid for all the costs of orginal construction and in few cases the toll booths have been completely removed. Richmond VA is a example. There used to be Toll gates at the bottom of each hill every mile or so for 15-20 miles tolls were a nickel and a quarter depending on what you were driving. It was a "Pain" because of urban traffic under pressure to get somewhere and around these slow trucks struggling to stop and restart safely. I am glad that is over and done with.

Someone mentioned putting trucks on trains and letting the drivers ride up front. It is already been done with intermodal. You need a truck driver to get that box off the train and to a customer or onto a ship. I dont want to have to deal with any potentail railroad delays and besides the shipping and recievers's schedules are so tight and demanding we literally dont have time to load them trucks and take a seat up front. Sometimes we are already late leaving the shipper.

I have been told that you can empty a intermodal train in a bit over an hour. And reload it in a bit more time. several trains a day seems to be normal for a typical intermodal yard.

I dont manage fleets and I do not drive anymore and am glad for it. There is too much problems with road construction going on to even state with any certianty how long it will take you to get across I-80 in Ohio (Should be 232 miles at 5 hours) with construction recently that time could go to 8 or more hours from state line to state line.

To lighten the mood for those who are still here, we used to refer to the construction barrels as "Baby trucks" What usually happened is that one or two will get broken because they were not placed right or blown into traffic. The end result is several orange trucks on the other side passing by. This is the best way I can express it while protecting certain parties in the trucking world.

[Anonymous]

split speed limits do increase the danger by causing more lane changes, but the worst part about them is that split speed limits really mess up traffic. say you have a giant line of trucks crusiing along at 55 in the right lane. all the cars are going to be completely filling the left lane doing 65 or 70. now that line of trucks comes up on a school bus doing 50 and they all have to fight with the cars to move over, causing traffic to back up even farther and maybe causing rear end accidents when one car slows down to let a truck in and another car runs into the back of him.

this is especially bad out in California where trucks have a 55 speed limit and cars can do 70. most trucks out there run between 60 and 65 while the cars run around 80-90. lots of tailgating out there and when a truk pulls ut to pass, lots of rear end crashes.


and one thing about trucks being more dangerous to cars, it's the other way around. several studies have shown that around 80% of fatal car/truck accidents are the fault of the car.

[Anonymous]

i drive a truck, working on construction in the summer hauling blacktop, etc etc. i have to agree with the highiron guy. the asphalt over the concrete is just a band-aid on cancer. i've looked at the concrete after they've ground the asphalt off and the concrete is just shot. yet they just lay another 5" over the broken down concrete and hope it lasts another 10 years. there will never ever be good roads that last damn near forever until the corruption stops. crappy roads=job security. contractor builds a sh**ty road, 5 years later he needs to rebuild it and keeps makin money, people stay working, state keeps spending money, politician friend of the contractor lines his pockets w/the 'ol $10k in the apple pie box trick. repeat process. and everyone stays "happy".

the governor of IL is doing nothing for business in the state, at all. he's taxing the bujeezus out of EVERYTHING. granted, the normal public just thinks everyone in business for himself has been getting way too many "breaks" over the years. from the farm suppliment programs, to the truckers using "free" roads to whatever else. but it's what has been keeping your food cheap, your goods cheap and anything else you can imagine. farmers have really no control over their ultimate income, as the market controls that. basically it's a crapshoot on when to sell your crop...when some report comes out and either raises or lowers the market.....for trucking, it's almost unreal to even try to own one and put it on the road. to license a truck it's almost $4k a year for a plate! top that off with some assinine toll increase it's rediculous.

for all you split speed limit proponents, take a ride in a semi some day. you'll see what it's really like with all the idiot commuters and every other car and SUV. sure, there are bad eggs everywhere, but the vast majority are automobile drivers. split speed limits are a thing of the past, back in the days of the gas crisis of the 70's. nobody gives a damn about conservation these days. 600hp in your semi truck, a suburban with a big block V8 in it with one person driving...pffft! if anyone was even a little serious about speed limits, anything with wheels produced today is computerized. computers can be programmed to limit speed. it would be done. but until then cars and semi trucks will be built to go 100mph+ and people will be behind the wheel pushing the limit till they screw up.

bottom line...make every road a toll road, uncover the secret recipe for indestructible concrete, eliminate the speed limit and quitchurbitchin.

[Anonymous]

Germany invented that when Hitler's Autobahn was built.. some sections of the original highways are still in service today because they were built so strong.

Computers were used to manage fuel in the trucks then to manage the drivers habits on the road and finally the speed.

I brought a Laptop with a GPS unit and used it to manage my directions without paying for phone charges etc and discovered my company had limited the trucks to 63 miles an hour rather than the speedometer's 65. I took this to safety and requsted that they adjust my rig to run 65. They smiled and said it was worth alot of money to the company to self insure trucks at 63 than 65.

The motorists in SUV's and cars enjoy alot of advantages in power, speed etc etc. But what they do not understand is that thier SUV is only 4000 pounds versus 80,000 of a big rig. They may be able to stop in 110 feet, trucks need 110 feet just to gain the full braking force to the tires. Taking into account driver's reflexes, mental lag and physaical time lost in moving the required air to all 10 brake chambers (I wonder how long it takes a train to get the full braking on anyway?)

Anti lock brakes on my rig has saved about 9 people from a deadly collision in 4 seperate situations. I owe the technology thier lives. Countless others benefited from my choice to back off a little let em by and in general keep it moving without getting involved in the "Rat races"

With that said I have also been on the dark side with 110 mph trucks and under the counter money etc and I am glad that those days are no more. Out west we used to run the desert areas where there is no living thing for miles nor man made items. Wide open with flames coming out of the exhaust stack.

There is a sense of purpose in moving freight for the nation. Truck, train etc. And yes the toll charges are usually charged off as a 'Business expense" to the govt come tax day. One wonders with all the money required to do business in the USA where it all goes.

I am also old enough to remember where container boxes on trains were strictly for ports close to one another on the coast. Suddenly they discovered that you can bring a ship to the west coast, unload it take it to the east coast in 7 days or less and reload a ship to europe without having to take it all the way down to Cape Horn or Panama Canal. Railroads suddenly had problems of clearence and horsepower for several years as they spun up to take advantage of this new source of revenue.

And trucking outfits suddenly realized you can load 500 boxes out of Baltimore ship it to LA unload it and have either the west coast locals deliver it or hire a service to handle the frieight with out the need to maintain hundreds of drivers, rigs, trailers and potential costs and problems of cross country travel.

One more thing with the intermodal, I spent 3 months as a newbie driver hauling boxes up and down the east coast. I always amazed at the oh so casual skill of the giant mobile cranes on tires higher than my cab pick out a box from a stack of boxes and slap it down into the chassis trailer with a audible click of all 4 lug locks engaging. We are dealing with lifts that are 40 feet high moving at 20 mph in some cases straight to your rig in the designated "Yellow box" where you must go to be loaded.

It was alot of fun in the day.

[DSchmitt]

The design of the Highway structural section is a compromise between initial cost and Highway life span. I know that in California, politicians and others often blame truckers for the deteriation of Highways that have exceeded their design life span (in some cases double or more). Admittedly if there were no trucks the life span for the structural sections built would have been longer.

There are also some cases where experimental structural sections have failed (others where they worked) Also some repairs have workes quite well to extend the life and others have been dismal failures.

The weight of trucks is not what causes most of the damage. If they were just parked on the pavement it could last for centuries. Both cars and trucks bounce a bit which pounds the pavement. This of course gets worse as the highway falls apart. Another factor is flexing of the structural section. (incidently watch the track when a train go by somtime, you will see the track structure flex). I think the 10,000 car per truck figure is more than a slight exageration, but don't really know.

Asphalt pavement tends to flow particulary when heavey loads are stopped and started.
Where I live there is one signalized intersection where this is very noticable. There is a high spot just behind the limit line, a 30'+- dip then another high spot.

I think that the same speed limit for autos and trucks would relieve a lot of congestion. It would however require stringent enforcement, particuarly against autos.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I don't know how it works in other states, but in Illinois the Tollway Authority pays all of its own bills for maintenance, labor, upgrades, bond repayment, etc. For budgeting purposes, the tollways do not come under IDOT jurisdiction.

Several years ago, Governor Ryan proposed an average 87% increase in tolls to pay for some major improvements, with the promise that the tollways would eventually become free. Nobody bought it, and the proposal died.

The current proposal includes a doubling of ca***olls for autos. Users of I-PASS (the electronic system) would not see any change in tolls. Truck tolls would be increased dramatically, with an appreciably lesser increase between the hours of 10:00 PM and 5:00 AM. This is not unlike demand charges for commercial electricity users.

The proposal includes an extension of I-355 south from I-55 to I-80, and widening and rebuilding of most of the existing tollways. Bonds would be issued to pay for everything. The proposal has just been released, so it's still a bit early to gauge public response. I support the idea for the most part, but then, I have an I-PASS in my car.

[Big_Boy_4005]

The concept of different rates for I-Pass users is inherently unfair, especially to people traveling into the Chicago area from other states. I doubt that it would ever be adopted. It screams get an I-Pass to the locals, and F___ YOU to everyone else.

I haven't been to Chicago in a couple of years. Is the I-Pass a monthly unlimited, or an account debit style system? If it's the latter, are accounts easily opened on the spot, so that outsiders had a chance to not get ripped off?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Use of I-PASS increased dramatically within the past several months when they became available through a local grocery store chain. It's a debit system, since tolls on ramps and at plazas are not all the same. Usage rate of I-PASS is now getting close to the 50% mark. I believe that one of the reasons for the differential rate proposal is to encourage I-PASS use at least among locals, which would speed up traffic and reduce labor costs (less manned toll booths).