Caboose Requirement for Switching?

[Anonymous]

I sometimes pass a very small yard in Linden, NJ., Conrail Shared Assets area. It services the GM assembly plant that it is adjacent to, and a few other industries miles away.

A GP38-2 and a old Conrail caboose are kept there (and a SnoJet ice blaster --- cool!). Sometimes when I past this yard, both the engine and the caboose are gone.

Am I right in assuming that there are areas where a caboose is required in switching? This is suburban New Jersey. Are these federal regulations? Could I read them somewhere?

Is it that you are not allowed to *push* a car with the engine in some areas? Or push a certain number of cars? A caboose is requied up front, if so? This is not at all a busy yard .... most of the time nothing is going on.

BTW....the GM plant is not scheduled to build any vehicles after the 2005 model year (they build GM's small SUV's now). If the plant closes next summer, that will finally end all automotive assembly in the state of New Jersey. Sad.

Jim

[wcfan4ever]

I think cabooses are required for all backup movements on a mainline. Right here in Manitowoc, WI, there is an old Green Bay and Western caboose, repainted a few years back that is used three or more times a week to back up the former C&NW main to Rockwood, WI.
I think they do this because if they back up to an industry where they can not run-around thier train, they use a caboose to back all the way there. In this case, its a four mile reverse move on a line that has one industry but with many crossings and that might be another reason for a caboose.

[Junctionfan]

A caboose for switching would advantageous in that it could be used as a track scout for track defects so the caboose derails but the loaded cars and locomotive is undamaged and still mobile.

Another interesting thing I thought about.

[tree68]

There was a long backup move to an industry in the Lompoc, CA area when I was there (cabeese were still in use then) - a caboose led the move, undoubtedly because of the lack of runaround capability at the industry. In addition to providing an observer for the move, there was a whistle on the caboose used to blow for crossings... I've heard that mentioned before in similar threads.

[BentnoseWillie]

In Canada, there is a requirement for all train movements over a public crossing at grade to have a crew member protecting the movement as it enters the crossing, either riding the train or on the ground. Because of this, locals making long reverse move over several corssings may use a caboose as a "rider car" to provide the conductor with a safer and/or more comfortable location than the end of a freight car from which to protect the train.

They're getting thin on the ground on some roads - CN has but one van in such service east of Joffre, Quebec. It's in captive service in Truro, Nova Scotia, and carries an SBU (end of train device).

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M.W. Hemphill

I'm not aware of any government regulation that requires a caboose on the federal or state level. There might be a local union agreements that require them, however.

Yes, the caboose is there for convenience on long shoves. Operating rules forbid shoving "blind" over a public road crossing. There has to be a man there to protect the crossing. Also, there might be switches to throw and joints to break and make. Hanging on the ladder of a freight car on a long move is uncomfortable, tiring, and not very safe -- you have to hang there with one hand and work the packset or give hand signals with the other. So in instances where long blind moves are made every day, the caboose is provided as a platform for the rear man to stand on. The train will still have an EOT device in most cases.

Mark is correct, the caboose is mainly a creature of union agreement. There are actually very few true cabooses in use anymore. Most of what is described in this thread are cabooses being used as "shoving platforms" for the reasons noted. The reason I refer to them as Shoving Platforms instead of cabooses is that most, if not all of these cars have been modified to preclude their use as actual cabooses by welding of the doors or other modifications to keep the crew from using them as actual cabooses. Why? Three reasons. First, the caboose was statistically one of the largest sources of employee personal injury claims so avoiding their use saves on claims. Second, employees using a caboose tend to go inside and sit down during shove moves instead of remaining on the end platform of the car. This has caused several serious accidents and at least one fatality that I know of. Third, employees who want extra pay can often manipulate the situation as a result of arbitraries associated with the availability of a caboose.

LC

[BaltACD]

Limtedclear is dead on point!

[DPD1]

I believe in some situations, the Conductor can actually request a cab on a job through certain union rules, right?

There's a couple UP locals from Gemco Yard in L.A. that still use cabs, mainly for reverse moves as mentioned. I'm not sure, but I do think the cabs used are still open. EJ&E also uses cabs on a few locals. Some cabs are open, while others are closed. That's probably due to weather.

Dave
Los Angeles, CA
-Rail Radio Online-Home of the "TrainTenna" RR Monitoring Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/railradioonline

[athelney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

In Canada, there is a requirement for all train movements over a public crossing at grade to have a crew member protecting the movement as it enters the crossing, either riding the train or on the ground. Because of this, locals making long reverse move over several corssings may use a caboose as a "rider car" to provide the conductor with a safer and/or more comfortable location than the end of a freight car from which to protect the train.

They're getting thin on the ground on some roads - CN has but one van in such service east of Joffre, Quebec. It's in captive service in Truro, Nova Scotia, and carries an SBU (end of train device).

Saw one this evening coming home from work -- Southern Railway was leaving town and was stopped waiting to cross the CP tracks at Clayburn BC ( also still has semaphore signals) . The train was 2 SW 900's and a GP9 with 8 cars and---- -- a caboose .

[StillGrande]

CSX routinely sends long trains backwards around the DC area. I have seen an aggregate train in College Park a few times backing quite a distance. 2 crewmen are standing on the back (front?) of the last car and were sounding a horn at the grade crossings (It was starting to rain but they appeared to be enjoying themselves). Within minutes of the that train the last time I saw it, there was a ballast train backing up the mainline, through a wye, and then proceding forward. It had one crewman who dismounted and walked to the crossing (protected by gates) who still stood and directed traffic through the crossing until the train was ready to continue through the crossing.

I have also seen long coal trains being pushed in reverse in Alexandria VA. Once or twice there was a caboose on the end (I had to do a doubletake when I first saw one).

[Dough]

CSX seems to be the biggest user of cabooses in GA. There are several bay window units that are used by the locals. Atlanta also has a number of them. I've posted pics before when this topic has come up.

On a related note, the one in Winder, GA is no longer there. It has been transfered a few miles north to Athens, GA. The old Athens one is now gone. I don't have the numbers right now, but does anybody have a clue why they stopped using the one in Winder, or what happened to the one in Athens?

[MikeWheeler]

I did a doubletake too when I saw a Susquehanna caboose trapped behind two box cars at a lumber mill at the end of a very long spur that goes through Cortland NY.

Especially because that spur had been blocked off by empty asphalt cars for what seems like years. Guess the lumber had been shipped out some other way.

[Anonymous]

NS uses cabooses on some of their coal mine runs. They are neccesary for back into long curving sidings. You can find pictures of them at railpictures.net.

[johncolley]

BN now BNSF still uses cabins on some runs out of Auburn, WA up to Stampede Pass area. Probably some out of Wenatchee, south, too!

[Anonymous]

CSX uses a caboose on it's local out of Lyons, NY for reverse moves. It's great in the winter to see smoke (fumes) coming out of the stack of the caboose, knowing there is a fire in the stove keeping it warm for the crew.

[athelney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley

BN now BNSF still uses cabins on some runs out of Auburn, WA up to Stampede Pass area. Probably some out of Wenatchee, south, too!

Saw a couple of them on a Mow train going through the Cascade tunnel a couple of years back -- maybe they are still around ! They were heading west to Everett at the time .

[Mark300]

NS also uses a caboose (baywindow, still painted in Conrail blue & white) on their stretch of track between Thorndale and Bucks County (the former PRR Trenton cutoff) in SE PA.

Consist is all hoppers and/or gons filled with scrap metal; maybe a dozen or so. Always' seen as pulling but I guess it can be shoved.

They sometimes leave the consist parked on, or next to the new I-76 bridge at King of Prussia PA.

Makes a dandy distraction while we're sittin' in traffic.

Mark

[CBQ_Guy]

Most replies to this thread indicate that the caboose is there to protect the crossing. But it's possibly trapped behind the cars as it's pushed onto a dead end spur with them.

So how do they get it out of the way?

[railfan619]

Here in Milwaukee Wi down were the old great northern used to sit when they do the switch job downto the jones island area there is always a soo line caboose.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

Most replies to this thread indicate that the caboose is there to protect the crossing. But it's possibly trapped behind the cars as it's pushed onto a dead end spur with them.

So how do they get it out of the way?

ANSWER: They get a crane to pick it up and place it somewhere else after another crew shoves 18 cars into that track that was designed to hold ten.[}:)][}:)][}:)]

[CBQ_Guy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by CBQ_Guy

Most replies to this thread indicate that the caboose is there to protect the crossing. But it's possibly trapped behind the cars as it's pushed onto a dead end spur with them.

So how do they get it out of the way?

ANSWER: They get a crane to pick it up and place it somewhere else after another crew shoves 18 cars into that track that was designed to hold ten.[}:)][}:)][}:)]

Cool! That's how I do it on my layout! [;)]

[Anonymous]

Union Pacific keeps a former Rio Grande extended vision coupola caboose in Salt Lake City for a local that ventures out to work an industrial area west of SLC. On the local's return, the caboose leads, with a crewmember riding in it to watch the track ahead.

[Anonymous]

MC--

Yeah, and Hulcher usually owns that crane, and somewhere else generally has a couple of torches in inventory![(-D][(-D][(-D]

Other guys--

The other place you may occasionally see cabeese on a main line is in ABS/TWC/ dark/ etc. territory where there are a lot of lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng passing sidings that are still unsprung and require hand throwing, particularly in the winter up north where a long hike back to the locomotives at 20 below is actually dangerous, or down here at 110 in the shade in July for the same reason. Again, they are crew platforms and not true cabeese. See them occasionally on long locals for the same reason. Helps the crew out. Most like this are covered under the contract.

As much as railfans like 'em (I know few of us who quake at the sight of one), and as nostalgic a picture as they make, a caboose is a $75,000 piece of hardware that gets dragged around, incurs costs, and never makes a dime for the railroad. As much as many would hate to admit it, EOTs in most cases can get the same job done better, for less money, which makes the RR more competitive, which creates jobs, etc.

[csxchris]

I know first hand the Rules require when shoving from other than the controlling unit, a employee must be stationed where he has access to an emergency brake a white light and a warnign device of some sort. Otherwise stopping and protecting the crossings is mandatory. Rules also forbid riding the end of a car without a platform and a horizontal bar to stand BEHIND in a shoving move. Which leaves riding the side of the car. It doesn't look hard but try sometime holding on to the side of a car for about ten minutes - sometimes with only one hand giving hand signals. The main reason perhaps as mentioned above is the crews get a shove claim usually an hour at time and a half for having to shove without a caboose. So Railroads that are thrifty and cheap will provide a caboose to eliminate that shove claim. Most will have their doors welded shut so the only useful part as intended is the end platforms and the interior doesn't have to comply with any federal or labor requirements.