I have seen pictures of NS trains led by units running long hod forward. While they are rare, I have to wonder if NS is falling back on something they learned back when this was common practice. I know that several of their locomotives early after the mergers, SD50s, SD60s and B39s were built long hood forward.
Also, I believe that N&W quit runninglong hod forward. If this is the case then why did NS continue the practice.
Examples:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=383659&nseq=5
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=349859&nseq=24
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=342883&nseq=26
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=256156&nseq=2
The Beaverton, Fanno Creek & Bull Mountain Railroad
"Ruby Line Service"
Also, after it was no longer typical to have long short hoods, why didn't Norfolk southern start chopping noses? Or have they?
I know that here on the Streator Local they run Long hood forward to town for one reason no place to turn the engine around so by going LHF they can have the short hood leading going home.
KBCpresident Also, after it was no longer typical to have long short hoods, why didn't Norfolk southern start chopping noses? Or have they?
Low short hoods were part of the GP38-3 rebuilds (5800 series). They were rebuilt from GP50's which were built with high short hoods. The same applies to the rebuilt GP38-2's in the 5500-5600 series.
I'm not 100% sure but I think that NS has begun chopping the hoods on SOME Ex-SOU high hood SD40-2's. (Which is sad!)
I think that they still do run LHF, although I I belive that most all locomotives are now SHF equipped. I see them run power like this on the Lafayette District once in a while. They will have a Geep running LHF because they have no where to turn it. Once in a great great while you will see a spartin cab Dash-9 do this as well. I think they will bust up power consists in the yard and use the locomotives from there. If they aren't facing the proper way then the crew just has to get over it I guess.
This is becoming rare in the Lafayette area though since Lafayette now has 2 wyes.
I do like to see them in LHF. It looks really neat. But I'm sure the crews hate it.
-Justin
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Where is the "F"!
NS locomotives were built with the long hood forward, and the "F" was on the end of the long hood.
LIRR used to operate long hood forward with their Alcos, but went to short hood forward with the EMDs. On LIRR the long hood forward was considered better protection for the crew, who by contract (in those days) got paid extra if they had to run short hood forward. They also got paid extra if the road crew had to turn the engine on a turntable.
But railroads today buy wide body cabs and so the point is becoming moot. With all of the mergers, NS has acquired a good many short-hood forwards. (Follow the "F") In practice it was my understanding that NS would operate their locomotives either hood forward and had to let station operators what side they were operating on when passing orders up to the locomotives.
ROAR
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Yea you see it from time to time, mostly on locals though. We refused to run long hood out a few times and ended up turning the power. Not going to run a wide body long hood out, no way in hell. Railfans may like seeing it but the visibility sucks, and so does breathing in diesel fumes for 12 hours.
I saw an NS unit the other day running long-hood forward on a local freight, with another unit behind it pointed the other way - I believe it was the 5050. But it was too fast and I was too far away to either see an "F" on the frame, or to tell on which side the engineer was.
- Paul North.
It seems that I wouldn't have learned or concluded much dependable anyway even if I had been closer - the 5050 is a GP38-2, and with a high short hood is "bi-directional", along with most others of its class of about 245 units. Only the 5053 and 5054 - rebuilt with low short hoods - are single-directional. See this webpage by Chris R. Toth, esp. the General Info and Control Arrangement notes at the bottom of the page: http://www.nsdash9.com/rosters/5000.html
I suppose that reviewing the other roster pages at this site would disclose which other NS units are equipped in this and other ways - i.e., set-up for Long-Hood Forward running only.
Even though there are some engines that are set up LHF, it is not preferred by any means. Usually done for necessity only. I will give credit to NS, equipping their engines with ditchlights (And in some cases cab signal pickup bars) on both ends is not a bad idea, IMO.
(there are still conjob engines without ditchlighs on the rear)
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
....For the very reason several have given here on long hood forward and visibility, brings to my attention I've wondered about for years. That is...The design of almost all steam engines. Engineer, back, way back with a tiny window, or sticking his head out the side window to have any visibility at all.
I understand the issue of safety of the crew not being up front and being in the crash zone if contact is made with anything at a crossing...and God forbid, a fuel tanker.
And I suppose they got a certain amount of smoke, gasses from being ejected up front of their position as well.....
Why was the crew of engine design from back near the beginning....put back where visibility was minimal at best. I suppose we must assume it really took both the engineer and fireman to sight both sides of ROW and signals as they crossed their district.
Perhaps the fact the fuel and water had to be where humans had to deal with it....had a big influence in position.....
Trivia: And camelback design were even more......??? Nutty.
Quentin
Back in 2000 or so I reported to Linwood Yard as conductor on NS337 headed to Columbia, S.C. The lead engine was long hood forward. It was customary to proceed south to Salisbury and turn the engine at the Y. The engineer was in a hurry to get to Columbia so he made the decision not to take the time to turn the engine. When a we rolled into AndrewsYard in Columbia the Yardmaster went ballistic when he saw the engine LHF. When we completed yarding the train I got another earful in the yard office. Almost as bad as the time I brought in a high and wide without a high and wide file. Two big no-no's at our humble corner of the world.
Who knows why things were done the way they were done. All I can tell you is I'm glad improvements have been made because sucking in exhaust and not being able to see around curves stinks. I have enough going on without having to worry about visibility, such as trigger happy trainmasters with banners. Stopping a 14K Ton train when your line of sight is only 10 car lengths through some curves is bad enough when running short hood out, no need to throw another danger element in there.
Yes it may save you if you hit something big like a log truck, but I've had far more encounters with banners and sneaky trainmasters than I have with truck drivers with a blatant disregard for human life, and trust me I've had more encounters with them than I care to think about.
baberuth73 Back in 2000 or so I reported to Linwood Yard as conductor on NS337 headed to Columbia, S.C. The lead engine was long hood forward. It was customary to proceed south to Salisbury and turn the engine at the Y. The engineer was in a hurry to get to Columbia so he made the decision not to take the time to turn the engine. When a we rolled into AndrewsYard in Columbia the Yardmaster went ballistic when he saw the engine LHF. When we completed yarding the train I got another earful in the yard office. Almost as bad as the time I brought in a high and wide without a high and wide file. Two big no-no's at our humble corner of the world.
I know what you mean. We had a problem with guys leaving a particular terminal and handing us trains with power facing long hood out, mostly wide bodies which are the worst. They were always in a hurry and didn't want to turn their power before leaving. We put a stop to that because we would not leave our yard without turning the power. Delay enough trains because you are doing other people's jobs and management starts to take notice, and they finally put their foot down. Sometimes that's what it takes to get their attention though.
Running long hood forwad usually happens on locals where there's no where to turn a locomotive around, so its run long hood or walk. As far as running with a wide body long hood you begin to see just how big those radiators are back (up) there. I know several engineers who have to run long hood foward into a yard try to avoid doing so because of having to run restricted speed within the yard. The visabilty issue is a big problem when tring to spot singal aspects in territory you are just getting use to.
Indeed some of Norfolk Southern's GP38-2s and SD40-2s have been rebuilt with short hood. Some of the rebuilds even have the windshield slanted from the bottom to the top like a ship, the NS "Admiral" cab. I know there are some SD40-2s with the Admiral cab but I'm not sure about the GP38-2s.
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Termination offence in my carriers corner of the world. As one crew and Yardmaster are about to find out.
baberuth73 Almost as bad as the time I brought in a high and wide without a high and wide file. Two big no-no's at our humble corner of the world.
Almost as bad as the time I brought in a high and wide without a high and wide file. Two big no-no's at our humble corner of the world.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
As I said, LIRR always ran the Alco Centuries with the long hood forward. Being from Long Island, I thought that this was the way that it was done. LIRR did mount a pair of wind deflectors near the exhaust to prevent it from entering the cabs.
I was told that it was for crew safety, and that it was specified in the union contract.
With the arrival of the GP-38s the short hood became the front, and because it was a low hood it had full width windows and it just made sense to run it forward. About that time diesel trains on the LIRR went to push-pull service. The electric lines got the new M1 EMU units, and the old EMU units were stripped of their motors but retained the mu harness to run the locomotive from either end. LIRR had no cab cars in those days, and so they purchased F units and other covered wagons, stripped out the prime mover replacing it with a HEP generator, and using the cab for reverse moves.
With the fourth generation of LIRR diesels (the first being F-M Consolidateds) The DE-30s (or whatever they call them) are back to the covered-wagon body style and are pulling new C1 double decker passenger cars (single height to fit the tunnels and under the wires) with their own cab cars.
But I am told that these new consists are not compatible with other equipment. They have a different number of connectors and plugs connecting between the cars and the locomotives.
The LION has witnessed all four generations of diesels on the LIRR, and while they were still using steam in my life-time, I never saw it.
Yes, sometimes H76 on the NS Lehigh Line will have an engine running long-hood forward. This happens occasionally, as it will more frequently have a high-hood than run long-hood forward.
NS 5050: Southern Style on NS H76.
I doubt that NS only uses LHL on locals. These two I ilk to below don't look like locals to me:
Also if a locomotive is a high hood, originally built to run LHF, to bi directional, when it is rebuilt with a low hood, do they also change it to short hood-forward, or do they leave it with it's original designation?
Those look like cases of "we don't have anything pointed the right way, so run 'em backwards until you get a chance to turn 'em!"
Yes or a case of we dont have time to turn em. I wouldn't have left the terminal like that if I had the means of turning one, or swapping units around.
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