Trip to Horseshoe Curve

[Anonymous]

I just returned from a trip to Altoona,PA. It was my first visit to Horseshoe Curve and surronding area. I was very impressed by this location and the work that it must have taken to build this line! I was told by another railfan that they were going to cut down the trees around the curve so you could see all the way around. Anyone know anything about this, it did seem that the brush around there was pretty bad. There was one area above the parking lot that was clear. Please let me know about any trips others have taken. Thanks[:D]

[Anonymous]

I will be visiting altoona and the "curve" this week end. This will be my ssecond time but I was to young to remember much from the trip. Next time you go stop in johnstown and get a hot dog from coney island "no relation to the amusement park in New York". Some of the best Hot Dogs around. Did you get to venture to Juniata and the RR musuem there. You can spend a whole month just doing train related stuff in that area.
Andrew

[Modelcar]

....There has been talk about cutting the trees to clear the view for the operation around the Curve and that talk has been happening now for quite a few years. Each year seems to be the year it will be done but evidently it's not done yet. It's been several years now since my last visit and I surely concur, it would be a great help to enable one to watch the operations if some clearing of the RoW was accomplished.

[Modelcar]

Andrew...While in Johnstown, go up to the Incline Plane observation deck and you will really get a great birds-eye view of the valley...including the railroad as it comes down the valley and one can witness the Amtrak passenger train stop at the station if you are there at the right time in the afternoon, etc....Just a great sight from there. You might even take a ride up and down the Incline if you haven't done so yet...

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Andrew...While in Johnstown, go up to the Incline Plane observation deck and you will really get a great birds-eye view of the valley...including the railroad as it comes down the valley and one can witness the Amtrak passenger train stop at the station if you are there at the right time in the afternoon, etc....Just a great sight from there. You might even take a ride up and down the Incline if you haven't done so yet...

modelcar - for us downunder mob, what's the inclined plane? Is it a type of cog railway?

Dave

[Modelcar]

Dave...back in 1889 Johnstown had a massive flood from a dam bursting up stream about 20 miles or so and brought a 40 ft. wall of water down and washed away the fledging city and killed over 2000 people. Johnstown is located in a rather deep valley and surrounded by higher ground by roughly 700-800 ft. The powers to be decided that wouldn't happen again and installed this steep railway tram..[large enough to haul people and even a city bus]...to evacuate people to higher ground if need be. Don't remember the exact % of grade but somewhere around 70%. Two tram cars are used and structured one at the top and one at the bottom...[on double track], and supported by two 2" steel cables to move them up and down the track top to bottom, etc....Driven by an electric motor at the machinery end of it at the top of the hill. Cable winds on a large drum that must be 12 ft. or more in diameter. Cars balance each other so it is not difficult to pull the tram car up the grade as it is balanced by the one coming down, etc...
It operates only now as a tourist site....Have ridden it manytimes and one really has a great view all over the Johnstown valley. Item: Dave...go to Google and enter: Johnstown Incline Plane" and I'm sure you can pull photos and info up on it. It's location is just 20 miles from my boyhood home in Pennsylvania.

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Dave...back in 1889 Johnstown had a massive flood from a dam bursting up stream about 20 miles or so and brought a 40 ft. wall of water down and washed away the fledging city and killed over 2000 people. Johnstown is located in a rather deep valley and surrounded by higher ground by roughly 700-800 ft. The powers to be decided that wouldn't happen again and installed this steep railway tram..[large enough to haul people and even a city bus]...to evacuate people to higher ground if need be. Don't remember the exact % of grade but somewhere around 70%. Two tram cars are used and structured one at the top and one at the bottom...[on double track], and supported by two 2" steel cables to move them up and down the track top to bottom, etc....Driven by an electric motor at the machinery end of it at the top of the hill. Cable winds on a large drum that must be 12 ft. or more in diameter. Cars balance each other so it is not difficult to pull the tram car up the grade as it is balanced by the one coming down, etc...
It operates only now as a tourist site....Have ridden it manytimes and one really has a great view all over the Johnstown valley. Item: Dave...go to Google and enter: Johnstown Incline Plane" and I'm sure you can pull photos and info up on it. It's location is just 20 miles from my boyhood home in Pennsylvania.

Thanks Modelcar - I bet you've been on it a few times heh heh

Dave

[Anonymous]

The incline plane is infact one of the stops on the trip. The other sites we will see are, horseshoe curve, Jownstown flood musuem, Altoona raiilroad musuem, Juniata shops, Malleys chocolates(I think that's right, it's the company that makes the Mallo cups) and Coney island hot dogs. Plus there's an outdoor movie on the johnstown flood and a car show at the rr musuem. It's going to be jam packed off fun. Plus for the scouts I'll be teaching the railroading merit badge on the trip. I've been waiting a long time for this trip and I can't wait.
Andrew

[Modelcar]

Andrew...That sounds like a super trip and we wish you and the gang a great success in doing it...I am familiar with almost all that you mention and should hold a great interest for your people. You probably are on a schedule and may not be able to change course but I might suggest adding a stop at the Gallitzin Tunnels....An interesting location to see 2 tunnel openings on the main of the old Pennsy. Only one in operation now as it has 2 tracks and the other along side is out of service but still intact. You can locate to look right into the openings [safely and on a bridge], and witness activity of the [NS], running.....Gallitzin Tunnels are slightly west of Horseshoe Curve...perhaps 5-6 miles and really not too difficult to get to...It's right in town. Many, many years ago I found myself a boy scout...even a patrol leader..Troop 146.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....There has been talk about cutting the trees to clear the view for the operation around the Curve and that talk has been happening now for quite a few years. Each year seems to be the year it will be done but evidently it's not done yet. It's been several years now since my last visit and I surely concur, it would be a great help to enable one to watch the operations if some clearing of the RoW was accomplished.

I heard they did it in 2002 (from looking at but since we had so much rain in 2003 it went started growing again.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Andrew...While in Johnstown, go up to the Incline Plane observation deck and you will really get a great birds-eye view of the valley...including the railroad as it comes down the valley and one can witness the Amtrak passenger train stop at the station if you are there at the right time in the afternoon, etc....Just a great sight from there. You might even take a ride up and down the Incline if you haven't done so yet...

Love that place, I got some very cool shots of trains from there.

[Anonymous]

I've been in Altoona 7 times (this year will be 8) and I never get tired of it!

[Modelcar]

Glad you found that area since you seem to appreciate what's there to see. I grew up about 20 miles south of the Johnstown area and always try to make my summer stop in Johnstown each year as we visit. Hopefully again yet this summer. Lots of history and especially Pennsy railroad stuff to see.

[Anonymous]

Modelcar,
Speaking of Gallitzin is there any way of getting back to the east side of the tunnels, I did ask a local fan and he said it was hard to get to. I plan on going back next year. Thanks for any information.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracy15

Modelcar,
Speaking of Gallitzin is there any way of getting back to the east side of the tunnels, I did ask a local fan and he said it was hard to get to. I plan on going back next year. Thanks for any information.

Tracy:
The east portals of the tunnels under Gallitzin are off limits, and the area surrounding them is posted against trespassing. There is a sign on a field in Gallitzin that overlooks the east approaches to the tunnels that reads " No Trespassing $10,000 fine." I have often wondered if that sign was for real, and who put it up.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tracy15

Modelcar,
Speaking of Gallitzin is there any way of getting back to the east side of the tunnels, I did ask a local fan and he said it was hard to get to. I plan on going back next year. Thanks for any information.

Be aware of local hazards, too. I'd love to poke around the area of the portals (at least where they were...) of Hawk Mountain Tunnel (NYO&W) at Cadosia, NY. It's a cold weather pursuit, though, as the rattlers there are legendary.

[Modelcar]

Tracy15...Tree68.....I've not been to the east entrance of the tunnels and as answered in above post....I wouldn't try it where it's NS rail property. The west end is available by standing on a bridge right in town free from scrutiny by any NS personal. It is a good view from that side....There is a good motel right within sight of that bridge that is totally geared to railfans...They have a website on here....Not sure I remember the name....maybe, Tunnel Inn....Tunnels are visible from up on the rear of it.....
I concur with tree68's info of rattlers....anywhere in the rough around there...also around Horseshoe too....Careful is the word on that subject.
On the subject of the tunnel area....Some fans may not know there was another route down the mountain from there [eastbound], in the past that after leaving the tunnel the track swung to the south and worked it's way down the mountain to Hollidaysburg and then back northeast again to join the former Pennsy main line. This route had a "curve" on it too...called "Muleshoe Curve"....and it too is still visible but can't be driven too. Not sure if a trail has been constructed on it yet, but there was talk of it. In fact Rt. 22 that crosses Pennsylvania there [east - west], is now located on some of that old RoW. Check it's location out in last months TRAINS mag....Look at the map in the Horseshoe Curve article and you will find the location of Muleshoe Curve....Just a bit of trivia.

[Anonymous]

Yessir there sure are a lot of trees out there. [;)]

[Anonymous]

radivil, I was at the curve about a week ago and that large tree on the left has been removed, so there is an unobstructed view of the signal tower. Locals have said some brush all the way along that area had been removed, now if they could only do the opposite side of the curve.
Are the Juniata shops any good? Is there much to see our any tours. We were just at the Altoona Museum and Juniata crossed our minds but never got there.

[Anonymous]

I have also heard for years all the trees would go again, and the first time I was told said it had been talked about for a good many years beforehand. Supposedly NS is being a pain, and/or won't help with the removal.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by higssy

Are the Juniata shops any good?

The only place to really get good shots of the Shops is from the Sheetz (one of 8 or 9 in Altoona) parking lot, careful, the shops are not in the best part of town.