Why is it I never see box Car doors open,when on web cams trains going by,or here in Appelton Wi. When younger it seemed like most where open after they were emptied. Is it a railroad reg? Just curious.
There are stenciled warnings on many boxcars that the doors must be kept closed, even when empty, to avoid damage to the door's mechanism.
I see empty boxcars with open doors on the Union Pacific Sunset Route quite often, even those with the stenciled warnings. Who is responsible for closing the doors? Not the engineer or conductor.
The shipper is responsible for cleaning out the car and closing the doors. It is a rule violation to move plug-door cars without the doors closed and locked. Ordinary sliding doors may be left open, but plug doors are heavy, and get up a lot of momentum rolling on their track--we had at least one instance in Proviso of an employee being killed under a fallen plug door. Crews are not supposed to move cars that don't have those doors closed and locked.
In the really old days, the UP required all doors on its trains to be closed--helped with wind resistance. CNW used to make up its UP trains on special tracks with room for whatever machines were necessary to get the doors closed. If there was a car with a door missing, it wouldn't go on those trains.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Not only the slip sliding back and forth of an unsecured door but also the invitation for unwanted passengers are some of the reasons why doors are supposed to be closed and secured..not sealed, just shut tightly.
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So what exactly is the difference between "regular" boxcar doors, and plug doors, and what's more common out there today?
Regular boxcar doors are sliding doors (1 or 2 per set) slide closed and latch shut. Plug doors slide shut and then inward to form a tight seal when being latched shut.
Another problem with open plug doors is they have a nasty habit of being able to strike high-level platforms. Usually with the end result of the door coming off the car and landing on said platform. Not good.
There's an industry I pull regular sliding door boxcars out of. They have a habit of releasing cars with the doors closed, but not latched. I always make the guy put the latches back in. Otherwise the doors will slide back and forth while you are switching, and I just don't trust them. If you ever heard one of those doors slide full force close or open, then you know what I mean.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
My understanding is that 'plug' doors are thicker and hence heavier, as they are usually used on refrigerator or temperature-controlled cars - mostly carrying food or other weather-sensitive materials - and so have a layer of insulation in them, and another impact-resistant surface on the inside as well. The reason for the tight fit into the opening is of course to minimize the temperature loss and contaminants from getting in.
- Paul North.
CShaveRR CNW used to make up its UP trains on special tracks with room for whatever machines were necessary to get the doors closed.
CNW used to make up its UP trains on special tracks with room for whatever machines were necessary to get the doors closed.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
There are unisulated plugdoor boxcars. They are used when the product does not to be insulated, but does need to be protected from the wather. Some exmaples of these commodites are appliances, auto parts or furniture.
igoldberg There are unisulated plugdoor boxcars. They are used when the product does not to be insulated, but does need to be protected from the wather. Some exmaples of these commodites are appliances, auto parts or furniture.
Paper is another big one.
So of the entire boxcar fleet, how many would you say are plug type vs regular type?
Murphy Siding CShaveRR: CNW used to make up its UP trains on special tracks with room for whatever machines were necessary to get the doors closed. It took machines to shut the doors?
CShaveRR: CNW used to make up its UP trains on special tracks with room for whatever machines were necessary to get the doors closed.
Yup, plug door can weight upwards of 1000lbs, and if they have not been lubed in a while they are impossible to close by hand.
Regular sliding doors weigh in close to that also, while kicking/switchingI have had one slam into its stop and tear it off, the door flipped down our lead and took out a switch stand.
If you look closely, you can see where a lot of boxcars have stenciled "fork lift forks here" on some of the doors, because the shipper/loader uses fork lifts to push the doors open or closed.
There are push points or push pockets built into the doors.
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cacole There are stenciled warnings on many boxcars that the doors must be kept closed, even when empty, to avoid damage to the door's mechanism. I see empty boxcars with open doors on the Union Pacific Sunset Route quite often, even those with the stenciled warnings. Who is responsible for closing the doors? Not the engineer or conductor.
Usually people from the car department. At my home terminal, we have what they call MICs, Mechanics In Charge. They are a combination mechanic/car man and work on engines or cars as needed. Out on the original UP side, they call them Foreman Generals.
Last summer we met a MOW gang train headed east. There was a plug door that had come open on one of the box cars used by the gang. We told the train about it, and they contacted the dispatcher. They were instructed to take it on in, about 10 miles, where the MIC on duty took care of it.
Jeff
Yesterday I recorded a video that has Box Cars with the doors open.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_a3RsAp5b8
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
All the new boxcars I have seen have plug doors. As the old sliding door boxcars get less common (stored/retired) it makes sense you'd see fewer of them with open doors.
For those that are having a hard time visualizing the two types of Boxcar doors being discussed here, the following link may help ilustrate the differences. Admittedly they are older "double doors' sliders but they show up pretty good and the last picture in the series is a double dood plug-type.
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/Equipment/Boxcars.html
The sliding doors utilize as locks a wedge shapoed steel pin, that when in-place wedges tightly in the hasp because of its tapered shape. That type uses a camed lever to close the door the last couple of inches. Many sliding doors have been pretty badly abused by crews using 'com-alongs to get them close to their locked position, or fork-lifts to push the door ( possibly equiped with/ or not equipped with, the 'push pockets') mentioned by another poster on this Thread.
It is the use of power equipmentie(ie; forklift, tractor, etc.), in the hands of questionably, skilled individuals that adds to the on-going litany of accumulated damage to sliding doors on some boxcars. It is the damaged doors that can have the potential to damage by-standers as the car is in motion past their positions. This accumulation of damages is fostered by practices of shipping or receiving crews who are only concerned with meeting a schedule to get a car in, or out in time for 'the switch crew'.
The plug-style door is moved on camed rods that are on rollers on a top and bottom track on the car's side;
The caming action of the rods permit the car to be moved into a position that clears the side of the car to clear the door opening for access to the car's interior, To close the car the door is rolled back into the position of the door opening and the levers on the traveling rods are moved into the center are af the door and the rod ends go into pockets on the locking mechanism. The lock is then screwed inward by turning the 'T' rod clockwise. then positioned fully inward the mechanism may be secured with a numbered seal.
Here is a link to a photo (of a model), but it is pretty clear as to the parts of the door mechanism of a plug door car: http://www.trainresource.com/Akron_Canton_Youngstown.html
Once again, the damages occur when the use of motorized equipment to open or close the doors, by individuals of varing skill levels with that equipment.
Almost all of the box cars that I see in the CSX yard here in Gettysburg and on the siding jsut east of town are both single and double sliding door cars. A lot of Railbox cars come thruough here, as well as others. Will get some pictures and post them. CSX had over a mile of RBOX cars stored on the siding east of town. They sat there for over a year until they were moved out.
Some folks just don't have respect for the Side Door Pulmans.
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
It seems the vast majority of boxcars built in the last decade have plug doors.
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
Push pockets on a door:
Jjohnieray Why is it I never see box Car doors open,when on web cams trains going by,or here in Appelton Wi. When younger it seemed like most where open after they were emptied. Is it a railroad reg? Just curious.
I have seen open doors on boxcars in Neenah and Oshkosh. Admittedly they are very few and far between.
Dan
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