We've all noticed ditch lights and the bell when on platforms, but sometimes they're activated when we're railfanning.
Is there a general operating rule that engineers follow when encountering pedestrians near the ROW?
Another question, is there a technical name for the bell that rings?
Thanks!!
aegrotatio Another question, is there a technical name for the bell that rings? Thanks!!
The technical term is bell.
aegrotatioIs there a general operating rule that engineers follow when encountering pedestrians near the ROW?
Norfolk Southern operating rules state that the horn (succession of short blasts) or bell should be used when "other persons" are at or near the tracks. The rule extends the use of the horn for animals as well.
Sometimes it's just a greeting by friendly crews.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
From the GCOR...
I am sure NORAC has the same basic rule.
5.8 Bell and Whistle Signals
5.8.1 Ringing Engine Bell
Ring the engine bell under any of the following conditions:
Before moving, except when making momentary stop and start switching movements.
As a warning signal anytime it is necessary.
When approaching public crossings at grade with the engine in front, as follows:
If distance permits, ringing must begin at least 1/4 mile before the public crossing and continue until the crossing is occupied.
or
If distance does not permit, ringing must begin soon enough before the crossing to provide a warning and continue until the crossing is occupied,
5.8.2 Sounding Whistle
When weather conditions impair visibility, sound the whistle frequently.
If the whistle fails, ring the bell continuously while moving.
When other employees are working in the immediate area, sound the required whistle signal before moving.
The radio may be used in place of whistle signals, except signals (1) and (1 1). See following chart.
The required whistle signals are illustrated by "o" for short sounds and "-" for longer sounds:
(1) Succession of short Use when an emergency exists, or persons
sounds or livestock are on the track. When crews on
other trains hear this signal, they must stop
until it is safe to proceed.
(2) - When stopped: air brakes are applied,
pressure equalized.
(3) - - Release brakes. Proceed.
(4) o o Acknowledgment of any signal not
otherwise provided for.
(5) o o o When stopped: back up. Acknowledgment
of hand signal to back up.
(6) o o o o Request for signal to be given or repeated or
not understood.
(7) - o o o Flagman protect rear of train.
(8) o o o - Flagman protect front of train.
(9) - - - - Flagman may return from west or south.
(10) - - - - - Flagman may return from east or north.
(11) - - o - Approaching public crossings at grade with
engine in front, start signal not less than 1/4
mile before reaching crossing, if distance
permits. If distance does not permit, start
signal soon enough before the crossing to
provide wan-dng. Prolong or repeat signal
until engine occupies the crossing.
view is restricted.
(12) 0 - Inspect brake system for leaks or sticking
brakes.
The reason you will find engineers whistling and ringing the bell is because if they don't, and you the fan manage to get hit, hurt or wacked by debris or something hanging from the train, then the liability falls on the railroad and the engineer because we didn't warn you a 440,000 lb screaming loud and huge locomotive dragging thousands of tons of stuff is about to go past you.
On a lot of the new units, sounding the horn is a programmed system, you press a button on the dash, and the system sounds the horn, starts the bell ringing and flashes the ditch lights.
On some of the newest units, the "crossing signal", two longs, a short and a long, is built into the program, it will sound this signal and repeat it till the button is pressed a second time, or, if you hold the button down instead of pressing it once and releasing, it will sound the horn as long as you hold the button down.
So, even if we see you out there with a camera, well away from the ROW, we still sound the horn, ring the bell and flash the lights.
It's a simple way of covering your fanny just in case....
23 17 46 11
Thanks for the information.
We noticed anomalous horns, bells, etc. when railfanning at Manitou, too, in upstate NY. I was sure there was something going on to help warn or protect us.
Naturally we are at least 10 feet from the tracks. We aren't fools. The tracks tells us where the trains will be. I consider it the engineer's discretion and they seem to enjoy our taking pictures and naturally we don't do anything stupid, and they appreciate that!!
Thanks for the information!!
aegrotatio... when railfanning at Manitou, too, in upstate NY.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Well, there's upstate and then there's upperstate.
Also 10 feet from nearest rail may seem your in clear but your still trespassing.
Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW.
I'm not comfortable 10 feet away from the tracks. I've been clobbered by ice falling off cars and jumping this way and that while skittering across the platform.
And I was always VERY uncomfortable handing up train orders which meant I had to be within an arm's length plus pole length from the rail. Not my comfort zone, at all.
Art
I was only talking about safety, not legal property lines. You are often within 10 feet of the tracks when standing at a railroad crossing gate, too, you know.
Dutchrailnut Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW.
From where did you get that statistic?
And, another thing I'd like to say, how in the world does someone NOT hear a train approaching without the bell or whistle if they are a pedestrian? Trains aren't exactly known for the subtlety...
Sawtooth500 Dutchrailnut: Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW. From where did you get that statistic? And, another thing I'd like to say, how in the world does someone NOT hear a train approaching without the bell or whistle if they are a pedestrian? Trains aren't exactly known for the subtlety...
Dutchrailnut: Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW.
Yes, trains are big and trains are noisy, but the human mind is quite capable of igorning big noisy things. You get used to hearing them and your mind tunes them out.
I like trains and WANT to see them... I'll go out of my way to see them!.
Where my son used to live he was about a block from a busy dual track mainline where trains run fast and noisy and there was a grade crossing at that block away and another one a two blocks to the west. When he first moved there the trains were a bit of a nuisance, interrupting conversations with the near constant horn-blowing as it went through town.
But after a few months, even only visiting him once a week or less, we would be sitting on his deck beside his house, chatting and he would see a train go by and ask what kind of engine it was that just went by and I would ask "What train?" Yes, I guess I heard it, but it did not make enough of an impression on me to glance up and LOOK at it.
Lots of accidents occur because people fail to recognize the train coming.
Many people have asked me why I never went to work for a Railroad. The reason is simple; I KNOW that I would be dead in a month or less because I do not have enough "self-situational-awareness" and would be ground to hamburger because I'd wander in front of a train because I was looking at another one.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo Sawtooth500: Dutchrailnut: Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW. From where did you get that statistic? And, another thing I'd like to say, how in the world does someone NOT hear a train approaching without the bell or whistle if they are a pedestrian? Trains aren't exactly known for the subtlety... Yes, trains are big and trains are noisy, but the human mind is quite capable of igorning big noisy things. You get used to hearing them and your mind tunes them out. I like trains and WANT to see them... I'll go out of my way to see them!. Where my son used to live he was about a block from a busy dual track mainline where trains run fast and noisy and there was a grade crossing at that block away and another one a two blocks to the west. When he first moved there the trains were a bit of a nuisance, interrupting conversations with the near constant horn-blowing as it went through town. But after a few months, even only visiting him once a week or less, we would be sitting on his deck beside his house, chatting and he would see a train go by and ask what kind of engine it was that just went by and I would ask "What train?" Yes, I guess I heard it, but it did not make enough of an impression on me to glance up and LOOK at it. Lots of accidents occur because people fail to recognize the train coming. Many people have asked me why I never went to work for a Railroad. The reason is simple; I KNOW that I would be dead in a month or less because I do not have enough "self-situational-awareness" and would be ground to hamburger because I'd wander in front of a train because I was looking at another one.
Sawtooth500: Dutchrailnut: Railroad right of way extends to 35 feet from nearest rail in nearly all (99.5%) of all rail ROW. From where did you get that statistic? And, another thing I'd like to say, how in the world does someone NOT hear a train approaching without the bell or whistle if they are a pedestrian? Trains aren't exactly known for the subtlety...
The mind can tune out the sound of approaching trains, but also, ambient noise can mask the sound of an approaching train. Such ambient noise could be traffic, wind, radio, I-phones, and other trains that are nearby.
Extremly cold weather such as below zero, greatly reduces sound transmission from trains. Fresh snow can muffle the sound of train and locomotive wheels, making a coasting train surprisingly quiet. Parka hoods or ear muffs reduce the sense of hearing. Some people are just hard of hearing. So because of all of these reasons that people might have a hard time hearing trains, they blow horns and ring bells.
But let me bring up another point - unless you are within 2-3 feet laterally of the rail heads, you cannot get hit by the train (and no, close calls don't count because while you may get a good scare you do not have any physical injury). So common sense tells you not to just "hang out" in the middle of a street, and all people should know to look left and right before crossing the street. Therefore, why would someone think it's ok to just "hang out" on RR tracks or cross the tracks before looking left and right for a train? Just as it's pretty hard to miss that you're physically in a street, it's pretty hard to physically miss that you're on RR tracks... the only exception I could see to this is if there is deep snow that covers the railhead... but otherwise seriously why would someone think it's ok to hang out on the tracks?
Unfortunately common sense is not common. Don't forget the iPod factor as well.
I am always amazed when seeing videos of the ROW behaviors in other countries.
rdamon Unfortunately common sense is not common. Don't forget the iPod factor as well. I am always amazed when seeing videos of the ROW behaviors in other countries.
aegrotatio I was only talking about safety, not legal property lines. You are often within 10 feet of the tracks when standing at a railroad crossing gate, too, you know.
I won't stand within 10 feet of a train at speed. I've seen far too many banding straps, chains, pieces of lumber, broken bleed rods, etc sticking out that can and will take you out at 10 feet.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Sawtooth500 In other countries, they also don't care as much when someone gets killed by a train. I remember seeing a video on the internet of a guy in india on top of a train - AN ELECTRIC TRAIN WITH CATENARY!!! Well, next thing you know he gets fried crispy and falls off - and this is all happening at a passenger station with a lot of people - and after the fact nobody seems to really care people just keep going about their business.
In other countries, they also don't care as much when someone gets killed by a train. I remember seeing a video on the internet of a guy in india on top of a train - AN ELECTRIC TRAIN WITH CATENARY!!! Well, next thing you know he gets fried crispy and falls off - and this is all happening at a passenger station with a lot of people - and after the fact nobody seems to really care people just keep going about their business.
A couple years ago a pair of 17-18 yr olds (I will refrain from calling them kids as the media did) climbed up on a freight car under some catenary in PA. They both survived, but ended up with something like $40 million?
zugmann A couple years ago a pair of 17-18 yr olds (I will refrain from calling them kids as the media did) climbed up on a freight car under some catenary in PA. They both survived, but ended up with something like $40 million?
The fact that they got $40 million is a HUGE problem with our legal system - and as I've mentioned in several other threads payouts like that are why railroads are so quick to chase railfans off their property. The fact is that nobody but them was responsible and they deserved nothing. You shouldn't have to post signs so that people know not to climb under catenary, or even climb on trains period.
Sawtooth500 But let me bring up another point - unless you are within 2-3 feet laterally of the rail heads, you cannot get hit by the train (and no, close calls don't count because while you may get a good scare you do not have any physical injury). So common sense tells you not to just "hang out" in the middle of a street, and all people should know to look left and right before crossing the street. Therefore, why would someone think it's ok to just "hang out" on RR tracks or cross the tracks before looking left and right for a train? Just as it's pretty hard to miss that you're physically in a street, it's pretty hard to physically miss that you're on RR tracks... the only exception I could see to this is if there is deep snow that covers the railhead... but otherwise seriously why would someone think it's ok to hang out on the tracks?
One reason people "hang out" on a railroad track is to walk on it like it is a path. While that is illegal, it nevertheless seems perfectly logical to people who are walking. But even if bystanders are not hanging out on the track, enineers blow the horn or ring the bell to warn them in case they are not aware of the approaching train and decide to cross the track a the last second.
Bucyrus Sawtooth500: But let me bring up another point - unless you are within 2-3 feet laterally of the rail heads, you cannot get hit by the train (and no, close calls don't count because while you may get a good scare you do not have any physical injury). So common sense tells you not to just "hang out" in the middle of a street, and all people should know to look left and right before crossing the street. Therefore, why would someone think it's ok to just "hang out" on RR tracks or cross the tracks before looking left and right for a train? Just as it's pretty hard to miss that you're physically in a street, it's pretty hard to physically miss that you're on RR tracks... the only exception I could see to this is if there is deep snow that covers the railhead... but otherwise seriously why would someone think it's ok to hang out on the tracks? One reason people "hang out" on a railroad track is to walk on it like it is a path. While that is illegal, it nevertheless seems perfectly logical to people who are walking. But even if bystanders are not hanging out on the track, enineers blow the horn or ring the bell to warn them in case they are not aware of the approaching train and decide to cross the track a the last second.
Sawtooth500: But let me bring up another point - unless you are within 2-3 feet laterally of the rail heads, you cannot get hit by the train (and no, close calls don't count because while you may get a good scare you do not have any physical injury). So common sense tells you not to just "hang out" in the middle of a street, and all people should know to look left and right before crossing the street. Therefore, why would someone think it's ok to just "hang out" on RR tracks or cross the tracks before looking left and right for a train? Just as it's pretty hard to miss that you're physically in a street, it's pretty hard to physically miss that you're on RR tracks... the only exception I could see to this is if there is deep snow that covers the railhead... but otherwise seriously why would someone think it's ok to hang out on the tracks?
Well tracks would make great paths if there only weren't these big metal objects called trains on them...
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.