Today I ran accross a group of heavy-duty, 8 axle flatcars sitting in a siding. All were like QTTX 131286. Loading info showed a load limit of 468,900 (!). Through the wonder of the internet, I can find photos of that particular car sitting in various rail yards. The photos always seem to show it sitting empty. What would heavy-duty flatcars be hauling out in corn & soybean country? Would they be greatly restricted. as to where they could operate, based on the loaded weight?
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Here is a link to a pick of one loaded that used to used by Boeing http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,1481727
Transformers and/ or generators for coal-fired power plants.
More likely these days, nacelles/ generators for the giant wind turbines.
Here's a link to a photo - not mine - of sister QTTX 131276 with the hulk of a wrecked loco on board -
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=12980
469,000 lbs. 'Load Limit' over 8 axles = 58,600 lbs. per axle, plus the weight of the car itself - probably on the order of 80,000 lbs. or so, so maybe 70,000 lbs. gross weight on each axle. That's heavy but not outrageous - a 'standard' 263,000 lb. car is 65,800 lbs. per axle, whereas the 286K cars - as in covered grain hoppers and coal gons, etc. - are 71,500 lbs. per axle.
Really, each end of this car with its pair of trucks is not much worse than the adjoining trucks of a coupled pair of such hopper cars. So, as long as the next car isn't too heavy - probably it's an idler or spacer empty anyway - it's no worse than allowing such cars on a particular line.
This illustrates the need to differentiate the load applied at each level in the track structures, bridges, and soils. For track in reasonably good condition - even with 100 lb. rail and a fair number of marginal ties, at low speeds - the individual axle loads here will not likely overload the rails at any one point. But the further down in the track structure you go, the more the higher loads overlap and become additive - though again, not worse than the hopper cars. Or, if the rail was lighter and/ or the ties conditions poor and/ or the ballast wet and muddy and/ or the subgrade weak - then so many loaded axles close together might be more of a concern.
However, a series of these cars as you saw, each fully loaded and coupled to each other without a spacer or idler car between, will be imposing 8 axles' worth of 70,000 lb. loads over the short distance at the adjoining car ends, whereas the normal loading for the track would only be 4 such axles. So while the load on the rails and ties immediately under each axle would not be much different than for a regular car, nor for about 10 to 15 feet down into the subgrade, the load on a bridge that's long enough to have all 4 trucks = the 2 end trucks of each of 2 coupled cars on it at the same time - is also going to be about doubled. As a result, bridges that are about 30 feet and longer - and members within any bridge that are longer than about 15 ft. or so - would need to be checked carefully, up to around 100 ft. or so.
With those longer spans, their designs are governed more by the average gross weight per foot of train than the possible combinations of short and heavy axle loads. A 70,000 lb. axle load is commensurate with a 7,000 lb. per ft. average gross load for a Cooper's E-70 loading, which would be about 420,000 lbs. gross for a 60 ft. long car. These cars are heavier than that - 459,000 lbs. payload plus 80,000 lbs. my estimate for car weight = 540,000 lbs., so this might be problematical unless spacer cars are used for that reaon as well. Even an E-80 loading would be challenged by these cars - at 60 ft., that would still be only 480,000 lbs. allowable.
On the other hand, mayber the loads on these cars are just a little more than the usual flatcar's 100 tons = 200,000 lbs. or so, but not near or fully utilizing the 459,000 lb. max. of these cars - in which case, the many axles are already being used to spread out the load and lower the 'per axle' load, even if not the total gross load. Depending on where in that range the load actually is would determine the actual axle loading and gross car weight, and whether spacer/ idler cars are needed to spread those loads out to be acceptable for the rail, the rest of the track structure, and any bridges, etc.
- Paul North.
man so why did this post originally not show up until after I made the second post to replace it? (edit)
CShaveRRA check of the car's dimensions and capacity reveal that it has a gross rail load of 630,000 pounds. It makes little difference whether it's 630,000 pounds on eight axles or 315,000 pounds on four. But the railroad lines in the country that can handle gross rail loads of 315,000 pounds are pretty few and far between. .
Just because the car has a max rating of 630,000 lbs, is no guarantee that is the intended loading, is it?
Wouldn't 286,000 lbs spread over 8 axles be less stressful to the road bed than 286,000 lbs spread over 4? Especially some spongy "mud pumped" spur.
Linked here is a post from the past: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/67417.aspx?PageIndex=2
Pictured here are some of those QTTX Flat cars with the little QJ Chinese Steam engines loaded!
The pictures were made for us( Trains Forum) by Mr. Ed Blysard of Houston ,Tx.
If you chedck the above link, you'll find the coments on that thread which Ed made the photos and shared with all of us. Rhought that you might like to see these, again. 'Murphy S.' They also wound up in "Corn Country" as well in Iowa. Enjoy!
Convicted OneCShaveRRA check of the car's dimensions and capacity reveal that it has a gross rail load of 630,000 pounds. It makes little difference whether it's 630,000 pounds on eight axles or 315,000 pounds on four. But the railroad lines in the country that can handle gross rail loads of 315,000 pounds are pretty few and far between. . Just because the car has a max rating of 630,000 lbs, is no guarantee that is the intended loading, is it? Wouldn't 286,000 lbs spread over 8 axles be less stressful to the road bed than 286,000 lbs spread over 4? Especially some spongy "mud pumped" spur.
Carl,
Is it possible to have a flat car capable of hauling the same load but with a depressed center for tall loads, with roughly the same car weight, or are depressed center cars usually heavier?
Convicted OneJust because the car has a max rating of 630,000 lbs, is no guarantee that is the intended loading, is it?
Murphy Siding Of course, they don't have to load the car to it's fullest weight capacity. If the cars show up somewhere like here, Sioux Falls, S.D., off the beaten path, I'd have to think they were special ordered to carry something that took advantage of their heavier loading capacity.
nanaimo73Carl, Is it possible to have a flat car capable of hauling the same load but with a depressed center for tall loads, with roughly the same car weight, or are depressed center cars usually heavier?
I would expect a depressed center flat to be heavier due to the extra steel needed to strengthen the depressed area.
Two heavy transformers are enroute to Excel Energy's Monticello nuclear plant, north of Minneapolis, right now, they should make the final move to the plant today. One is on a heavy depressed center flat
Transformer move
The other is heavier and required a small Schnabel car.
Second Transformer
These pictures were taken by Dennis Weber near LaCrosse, WI on the BNSF on Saturday May 8th.
John Beaulieu
CShaveRRMurphy Siding Of course, they don't have to load the car to it's fullest weight capacity. If the cars show up somewhere like here, Sioux Falls, S.D., off the beaten path, I'd have to think they were special ordered to carry something that took advantage of their heavier loading capacity. Or, they could just be stored there, either because it's an available siding or in anticipation of some large load that's not quite ready for shipment yet.
Like DDA40X 6925 in Chamberlain?
nanaimo73 CShaveRR Or, they could just be stored there, either because it's an available siding or in anticipation of some large load that's not quite ready for shipment yet. Like DDA40X 6925 in Chamberlain?
CShaveRR Or, they could just be stored there, either because it's an available siding or in anticipation of some large load that's not quite ready for shipment yet.
The cars are gone this morning. Where they were sitting was an often used siding parallel to the BNSF main downtown. Cars staged there are never around very long. Looking around, I saw a pile of brand new sewer pipe, close enough to the railyard that they could have conceivably been shipped by rail. Normally, it seems like plastic sewer pipe would be a reletively light load. This pipe seems to be joined together in long lengths. It sort of looks like the sewer pipe equivilent of CWR. It will be interesting to see how it gets to the construction site. Is it possible, that this pipe was hauled on thses cars, spread out over many carlengths, similar to CWR? It would seem like any old flatcar would do for that sort of thing.
Carl and Dale;
Here is a link to the kind of depressed center flat being discussed. Maybe it'll help?
http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/173836.aspx
I guess I just fat fingered the keyboard--Where's Eleanor Roosevelt when you need her?
Murphy SidingNormally, it seems like plastic sewer pipe would be a reletively light load. This pipe seems to be joined together in long lengths. It sort of looks like the sewer pipe equivilent of CWR. It will be interesting to see how it gets to the construction site.
Sometimes to save shipping costs PVC pipe will be sleeved one in another I've seen up to 6 that way but usually only 4. Must be the required diameter (inside) goes upstream first and then the larger maybe(?) saving the extra PVC costs vs shipping costs? Sewer and storm water pipe usually white. There may be an adapter involved. Water pipe (usually green in color) often is shipped that way also.
CL9000 water pipe is very heavy. If the pipe was white a long length of the bell allows for some movement of the pipe without it separating. Some locations in CA have bell lengths of 2 ft.
I guess I've been refering to this as sewer pipe because it's black. Right now, there is a big water project going on in our part of the state, so we see that big green water pipe everywhere- including unit trains of it being delivered. There's also a big sewer project starting downtown near the rail yard.
Murphy Siding I guess I've been refering to this as sewer pipe because it's black. Right now, there is a big water project going on in our part of the state, so we see that big green water pipe everywhere- including unit trains of it being delivered. There's also a big sewer project starting downtown near the rail yard.
Are you sure that it is PVC pipe? All the black pipe I have ever worked with was called ductile Iron pipe (DIP) even though it has a completely smooth inner liner and is outside steel pipe. . It can be a very smooth looking pipe from the outside. DIP will be used for all types of fluid flow usually in locations crossing wet lands, streams, heavy rock infested ditches, and will be bolted to each section with a ring on the male and female sections to keep it from shifting and making a break. Some districts will require the DIP to be painted and / or identification tapes placed over them in a ditch. White - sewer, Grey - Grey water, Green - potable water, Yellow - Natural gas, Orange - telephone and control conduit ( RR signal conduit) (sometimes Fiber). Other colors I'm not aware.
Earthquake areas I understand have longer bells on PVC and DIP so earth movements will not break the seal. If you can estimate or measure the bell depth its purpose might be obvious.
Of course, they don't have to load the car to it's fullest weight capacity. If the cars show up somewhere like here, Sioux Falls, S.D., off the beaten path, I'd have to think they were special ordered to carry something that took advantage of their heavier loading capacity.
It just seems to me that I recall reading that while the class ones have the immediate resources available to make their mains "286K friendly"...many of the regionals do not, and in consequence their deficiencies might shut them out from interchange with the bigger loads.
Such a car as we are talking about might (for instance) allow a 280K shipment to continue on over a connection with a "deficient" regional line having a restricted capacity?
Convicted One Murphy Siding Of course, they don't have to load the car to it's fullest weight capacity. If the cars show up somewhere like here, Sioux Falls, S.D., off the beaten path, I'd have to think they were special ordered to carry something that took advantage of their heavier loading capacity. It just seems to me that I recall reading that while the class ones have the immediate resources available to make their mains "286K friendly"...many of the regionals do not, and in consequence their deficiencies might shut them out from interchange with the bigger loads. Such a car as we are talking about might (for instance) allow a 280K shipment to continue on over a connection with a "deficient" regional line having a restricted capacity?
blue streak 1 Are you sure that it is PVC pipe? All the black pipe I have ever worked with was called ductile Iron pipe (DIP) even though it has a completely smooth inner liner and is outside steel pipe. . It can be a very smooth looking pipe from the outside. DIP will be used for all types of fluid flow usually in locations crossing wet lands, streams, heavy rock infested ditches, and will be bolted to each section with a ring on the male and female sections to keep it from shifting and making a break. Some districts will require the DIP to be painted and / or identification tapes placed over them in a ditch. White - sewer, Grey - Grey water, Green - potable water, Yellow - Natural gas, Orange - telephone and control conduit ( RR signal conduit) (sometimes Fiber). Other colors I'm not aware. Earthquake areas I understand have longer bells on PVC and DIP so earth movements will not break the seal. If you can estimate or measure the bell depth its purpose might be obvious.
If it were spun fibreglass pipe (Hobas) it would . Yellow-brown in color. (You can jack that stuff without hurting it -can't always say that for the blue-green heavy plastic stuff)
mudchicken If it were spun fibreglass pipe (Hobas) it would . Yellow-brown in color. (You can jack that stuff without hurting it -can't always say that for the blue-green heavy plastic stuff)
MC: Around here we always jack with a steel casion pipe because of the possibility of hitting rock. then we insert the actual carrier pipe inside with diameter 2 -4" less than the casion Sometime I wonder if we compete with New Hampshire for being the granite state. My wife's old house was on Granite St. and she had a granite out cropping right under the house.
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