What are the preferred species of trees for railroad tie production? Where are they harvested (by state, if possible). Are they in short supply? Are they considered a "Yuppie-friendly" sustainable resource? Did they ever try New England Hemlock? They would last 'forever', especially in a wet environment. See the foundations of our old covered bridges. Heavy? Yar, but we got machines now....
What's going on with all the concrete tie failures? Low bidders? I'd be leery of using them in a salt air environment. The salt gets into the steel anchors and re-bars, with every rain, swells them (exfoliation?), and splits everything! Don't ever buy a condo, on the beach, that is made of reinforced concrete. I found out the hard way.
What ever happened to US Plastics (Miami, FL) that was making plastic ties out of re-cycled material? Their stock went up like a rocket and then disappeared. Did the ties "work"? Guess the Yuppies would rather discard their water bottles along abandoned railroad rights-of-way. Thanks, "Rails-to-Trails". Watch out! Labrador Landmine/soiled diaper/etc....
Hays
I imagine they are constructed of pine or cedar, although I’m not sure. Creosote is put on the ties to prolong the ties life. However, I have noticed that after three or four years, the ties will start to go bad/rot.
Hope this answers some of your questions.
Justin
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
Normally IIRC since I have hauled a couple loads way back when made of Doug Fir or Southern Yellow Pine. However weather does take a HUGE toll on them. Now with not being able to use the Same chemicals they USED to use to Pressure treat them they wear out faster. The Plastic ones had an Issue called way to easy to damage. That and they fisgured out how to make clothes out of water bottles. Wear a fleece hoody someone drank water from it FIRST. Steel and Concrete react with each other however if you use the right additives you can slow it way down. Saltwater will corrade ANYTHING why do you think all Navy ships have bars of Zinc on the hull to prevent Corrison.
edbentonSaltwater will corrade ANYTHING why do you think all Navy ships have bars of Zinc on the hull to prevent Corrison
The Zinc is a sacrifical element to add a slight layer of protection to the hull... doesn't work very well but better then nothing. You are dead right in saying salt water will corrode almost anything; not quite as bad as chlorine, but still nasty.
A recent message about the Union Pacific double tracking project indicated that the wood crossties they use are some type of hardwood (Hickory or Oak?). Concrete ties are being used in many areas of California, Arizona, and New Mexico because they supposedly last longer than wood. The UP is even using concrete ties for turnouts now.
Doug Fir on the tangents and in the yards; Oak in curves and in switch ties.
Azobe if you want a tie in critical places that has to last .(super dense African Hardwood)
Cedar has superior natural protection, but its structure is such that it would split easily with transverse forces. Even driving in spikes or screws could make it split, thus rendering its utility moot.
Oak ties...I like the sound of that.
-Crandell
I am still hoping for an answer from "THE Tie Man", wherever/whomever he be. As far as softwoods (pine, spruce, fir, larch) go, with the exception of Southern Yellow Pine or Hemlock, I can't imagine them as railroad ties. Three, or four, years is not a good life for ties. Cedar, and its natural resistance to decay and multitudes of architectural/aesthetic capabilities, would be out-of-the-question, costwise. Hemlock, methinks, would not require preservatives. It, to me, is quite an ugly tree, putting much of its energy into lower branches. Those branches can get the size of a railroad tie themselves! A hemlock farm, with proper pruning, could develop huge trees, with lots of tie material in them. Sorry, porcupines (they love eating hemlock branches), but that's the way it be.
Douglas fir? I'm surprised. I have one for my Xmas tree every year, seeing we can't get Balsam fir in Montana. Sorry, but no aroma to the Dougs. "Azobe"? Never heard of it. Is it as tough as Bubinga? Of course, the "Yuppies" have discovered the wonderful architectural capabilities of Bubinga, putting out of the price range, way above Teak. Both are $$$!!! I'll bet they use teak on the railroads in Thailand. Having worked with Bubinga, you would need a WMD to pre-drill a spike/screw hole in it! Some tough stuff! Really looks good, though!
BNSFwatcherAs far as softwoods (pine, spruce, fir, larch) go, with the exception of Southern Yellow Pine or Hemlock, I can't imagine them as railroad ties. Three, or four, years is not a good life for ties. Cedar, and its natural resistance to decay and multitudes of architectural/aesthetic capabilities, would be out-of-the-question, costwise. Hemlock, methinks, would not require preservatives.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Contrary to the statement that concrete ties are failing: they aren't in general. There was a bad batch that both Amtrak and MNRR got hold of that necessitated reinstallation along the Hudson and Harlem Rivers in New York and along the Corridor in NJ. That reinstallation was done last summer. But overall concrete seems to be holding up extremely well when manufactured and installed properly.
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You just got one, two posts above, from the mudchicken.
If he says oak or Douglas fir, bank on it.
Kirby Lumber had a tie cutting plant outside Temple Texas, used local harvest, and I think it was Santa Fe who had a treating plant near Hearn or Giddins Texas
BNSFwatcher I am still hoping for an answer from "THE Tie Man", wherever/whomever he be. As far as softwoods (pine, spruce, fir, larch) go, with the exception of Southern Yellow Pine or Hemlock, I can't imagine them as railroad ties. Three, or four, years is not a good life for ties. Cedar, and its natural resistance to decay and multitudes of architectural/aesthetic capabilities, would be out-of-the-question, costwise. Hemlock, methinks, would not require preservatives. It, to me, is quite an ugly tree, putting much of its energy into lower branches. Those branches can get the size of a railroad tie themselves! A hemlock farm, with proper pruning, could develop huge trees, with lots of tie material in them. Sorry, porcupines (they love eating hemlock branches), but that's the way it be. Hays
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Okay! Let's go to California and cut down ALL the Redwoods, except the ones you can drive thru. There are mega-ties in each redwood. That would solve the "Logger Unemployment" problem and balance Arnold's budget. It would also put a damper on them pesky 'furrin' cement companies, like Cemex and LaFarge. A win-win situation. Next up? The Sequoias! Even more ties per tree.
(Kirby Lumber was Santa Fe owned for years...Methinks you be thinking of Somerville & Silsbee, TX over there in da Piney Woods of East Texas...Somerville was the only survivor of all the ATSF Tie Plants of which there were at least six plus Somerville. Hopefully Dining Car can add to the list because I can only remember Albuquerque, Las Vegas and Richmond because I got involved in the cleanup or sale of those places --- AQ is now an auto unloading facility.)
In the bad old days, Hardwood/Oak could be Red & Black Gum, Magnolia (rare), Tupelo, Red and White Oak, Beech, Elm or Hickory.......usually red oak
Softwoods were Douglas Fir, Western Pine, Southern Pine and Mexican Pine...usually always Doug Fir.... I never saw yellow pine used in track.(It did get used for car decking, cribbing and freight house docks as a throwaway item)...we'd get desparate for curve ties in some lean years and pay for it later when softwood went in.
Azobe would destroy steel drill bits with the greatest of ease. It was almost impossible to get and pricey stuff. I wanted it under my crossing frogs and used with screws and pandrol clips.
douglas fir made a good tie as its physical properties (bending strength, abrasion, compressibility, etc.) were twiceas high as most other softwoods. oak has pretty well priced itselfout of use but used to be preferred for curves and turnouts. concrete is crumbled by salt even without any steel involved; this can be partially countered by adding latex (Elmer's glu) to the water when you mix it up. i remember riding the chicago el line down the middle of an expressway ( i've forgotten the route name) and noticing the concrete ties were being replaced by wood. at the end of the line i asked the motorman 'what gives?' he said they'd been pleased with a test installation from wilson ave to howard st. and had specified them for the new line, where they immediately started going bad. as a highway engineer i knew this wa s because they were being sprayed by the winter salt spray off the adjacent freeway lanes! the line to howard st. was on a high earth fill, immune to salt. -big duke
I lived near the E-L RR from 1945 to 66. I once retrieved a "year installed" metal marker from an old split tie on a work train side track stamped 25. The stem was eroded from age but otherwise was readable...
very so often a sawmill co would set up a portable sawmill on my grandfather farm in MO and make ties from the hardwood timber he sold off his land. They were then trucked to the treatment plant. most were sold to UP as they stamped this on the end of the tie.
moelarrycurly4most were sold to UP as they stamped this on the end of the tie.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Many railroads installed "Date Nails". They were short nails, with a big head, and a two-digit numeral embosses/stampted on the head. That indicated the year the tie was put in service. Records were kept, by the bean counters, to check on the longevity of the tie, its geneaology, family history, etc.. Date nails are a 'foamers' delight and there are a number of books out there dealing with the subject.
Hays -- P. S.: if you get/find one, be sure to tag it with date, place, railroad info. That makes them much more valuable.
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