I did a search on this topic, but I don't know what it is 100% that I'm searching for But I was curious as too once a coal drag reaches the power plant who unloads the coal? Is it a crew from the railroad, a crew from the powerplant, or a 3rd party contractor that unloads the coal drag? If its a crew from the powerplant or a 3rd party contractor do you have to go to the railroad that serves the power plant for training, and are they trained on DPU operations also or is that cut off before the off loading begins?
Cheers
CNWRacine I did a search on this topic, but I don't know what it is 100% that I'm searching for But I was curious as too once a coal drag reaches the power plant who unloads the coal? Is it a crew from the railroad, a crew from the powerplant, or a 3rd party contractor that unloads the coal drag? If its a crew from the powerplant or a 3rd party contractor do you have to go to the railroad that serves the power plant for training, and are they trained on DPU operations also or is that cut off before the off loading begins? Cheers
Around here its the crew delivering the coal, and the power plant, we operate the train they operate the pits. there can be a 3rd party unloading but they use there own equipment,
CNWRacineI did a search on this topic, but I don't know what it is 100% that I'm searching for But I was curious as too once a coal drag reaches the power plant who unloads the coal? Is it a crew from the railroad, a crew from the powerplant, or a 3rd party contractor that unloads the coal drag? If its a crew from the powerplant or a 3rd party contractor do you have to go to the railroad that serves the power plant for training, and are they trained on DPU operations also or is that cut off before the off loading begins? Cheers
All of the above methods are used. Some trains have the DPUs cut off in a yard before the train is hauled over to a power plant. Some trains have the DPU set out on a siding outside the power plant. Some trains have the DPU set out inside the power plant. Some trains haul the DPU right through the dumper and it never comes out of the train. See Wabash's post for one method. Sometimes the power plant crew delinks the DPUs to dump the train and relinks them when it puts the train back together and makes it ready to depart. Sometimes the road crew does it. It all depends upon the individual agreement with the individual power plant.
Some power plants use their own locomotive and the road power is cut off. Some power plants use the railroad locomotives. I have dealt with every possible combination I can think of, and every type of plant switch engine from TrackMobiles to 44-tonners to SW1001s to SD9s to SD45s.
RWM
All of the above. Some plants and docks even use ground mounted positioners to move cars through the dumpers and the locomotives are just pushed along with the rest of the train (or they cut off and head into town for lunch)
These positioners are hydraulic units mounted along side the track. They have an arm that drops down between cars and grabs the couplers. The train is then pushed ahead one car so the next car can be dumped.
Around here, we have a remote controlled SW1200 that is controlled by an operater from above the rotary unloader. The operator can see in both directions. The CSX ES44AC’s are cut off on a spur until the train is unloaded. The power consist is tail-end to tail-end, so there is no turning of the power consist involved. Just grab the reverser, and go.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but some plants have hydraulic “rams” to shove the whole train through the rotary unloader. I thought I saw that on the show “Extreme Trains”
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Sorry Redore, I didn’t see the portion of your post that talked about the hydraulic arms. Sorry.
Indexers are fairly common on rotary dumpers but usually only if the train can be dumped intact. If the train has to be broken up, the value of an indexer is usually not present. Also, the indexer won't shove a train up any sort of significant hill, and a downhill grade is almost as bad, so it requires the ability to make the loop virtually flat to make an indexer viable. Many sites can't be made flat or can't accommodate an entire train without excessive expense for land acquisition, earthwork, permitting, etc. I have never seen one for a rapid-discharge dump and don't know why you'd want one since it would defeat the purpose of "rapid." Cable indexers are cheaper but they require more attention to adjustment because of stretch in the cable.
The co-gen were I used to work gets ~100 car trains from CSX, who spots them in one of two yards. The plant has a switcher, R/C capable, that retrieves groups of 10-12 hoppers and runs them through the gravity dump.
Sometimes they push them through, sometimes they pull. The switcher is in R/C mode while they're dumping. Every few minutes you'll hear a couple of toots as they move the string to the next car.
Once they're all empty, CSX comes back and picks them up.
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Very interesting, I did not know it was so involved in unloading coal and there are different ways of accomplishing the same job. Good to hear that RC can be used, as it would have to be so boring sitting in the cab pulling a string along a great clip of oh I don't know 0.8 MPH I would go looney.
.08 mph that is nose bleed speed we are only doing .03 over here on flood dump.
wabash1 .08 mph that is nose bleed speed we are only doing .03 over here on flood dump.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Awww - what's a misplaced decimal point = 'order of magnitude' / factor of 10 between friends, anyway ? Either that, or some HO model railroader's transistor throttle's slow-speed setting has gotten loose on the prototype's tracks . . . have you ever seen the demonstrations of them that take about all day for a locomotive to go a couple feet ?
The likely correct numbers are 0.8 MPH = 4,224 ft. per hour = 70.4 ft. per min. or 1.17 ft. = 14'' per second; a 60-ft. long hopper car would be loaded in about 51 seconds - that's a little more than 2 tons/ 4,000 lbs. of coal a second.
For wabash1's slow-speed loading, the corresponding likely numbers would be 0.3 MPH = 1,584 ft. per hour = 26.4 ft. per min. or 0.44 ft. = 5-1/4'' per second; a 60-ft. long hopper car would be loaded in about 2.27 mins. - that's a little more than 0.8 tons/ 1,600 lbs. of coal a second.
Dumping/ unloading rates vary a lot more. For the rotary dumpers, roughly an average of 1 car every 1 to 3 minutes, depending on the details of the operation and whether it's a 2-car dumper, etc. - so like 2 to 5 hours or so for a train. But the Ortner/ Trinity Rail Car rapid-discharge bottom-dump cars supposedly can unload an entire train from a trestle-type facility in like 10-15 minutes or so. I'm currently trying to find more information on and detailed photos of those, as a result of some posts over on the ''Trackside Lounge - 1Q 2010 Edition'' thread, at - http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/166037.aspx?PageIndex=12 Anybody have any other suggestions ? Thanks !
- Paul North.
I never actually timed how long it takes between moves at the facility I spoke of - but I'm suspecting that they're dumping one door (gravity fed with help from a big vibrator) at a time so they don't overwhelm the conveyor system. Nonetheless, they move in car lengths, as evidenced by the regularly spaced dark spots on the ballast from the usual leakage from the locomotive.
Single-car rotary dumper designs are generally 4,000 tons/hour. Double-car (rare) are 6,000 tons/hour. That's an upper end and it is capped by conveyor and stacker capacity; the actual operating performance is usually much less.
Rapid-discharge varies broadly depending on whether you're trying to put it all into a single belt and stacker, or you can just build a big trestle, and move it later with tracked or rubber-tired machinery.
I have seen just about every kind of coal dumping operation in service, but my favorite is still the coal rail to water transfer facility on the Tennessee River on the east side just up stream from Kentucky Dam. (Go to Gilbertsville, KY on Google Maps).
I have to assume it is still in operation, but I saw it built and working the late 80's. We shipped 100 car trains-10,000 tons-down the IC to Paducah and then up the line toward Louisville. It's now the P&L Railroad. The railroad crosses a waterway into a harbor. The rail bridge over the waterway was designed open so the coal would drop directly into barges positioned under the bridge.
We used the IC's conventional 100 ton hopper cars. Road engines were used to position the train to spot two cars at a time. Standing at the bridge, conductor radioed instructions to the engineer. As soon as the cars were spotted a crew would knock open the hopper doors. A car shaker would be dropped onto the top of the cars and, as I recall, the cars would empty in less than a minute. Two strings of five barges would be positioned under the bridge and moved with cables and winches.
I didn't take notes, but I think that the train could get unloaded in less than two hours. It was a pretty slick operation
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Mr. wabash1, how do you get her at that slow of a speed, and keep her there? Do you notch it back and fourth between run 1, and idle all the time?
Thanks
Justin
Most of our AC units have slow speed control built in, just set the speed you want (.2-.5 is common) and the computers vary the output of the main alternator to keep the speed where you set it. Hump control does the same thing just higher speeds
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