? !!!!!

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drailed1999

MOOKIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are we having withdrals from not enough chocolate cake or are we just cranky !!!!!!!!!![soapbox][:-^][:-^][dinner]

THE QUEEN OF THE FORUM HAS SPOKEN [bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow][bow] LOL

Actually I'm thinking it's more a shortage of "catnip"[}:)][:D]

[cpbloom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

Ok, here's a good question. I spotted an ex-SP GP38-2 in Milwaukee today, and I'm wondering how many GP38-2s SP had? (number was either UP 371 or 571, don't remember right now...) Anybody got the heritage on this unit?

Thanks,
-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken

To answer your question, SP only had 45 GP38-2s and they bought them in 1980. They also leased 28 ex CSXT GP38-2 from Helm. Apparently they didn't have any non dash-2 GP38s. I find it hard to beleive that they only had that many GP38s; were they not popular. But then again, when I look at some other roads rosters I see they all made up for SP lack of 38s.

edit: SP GP38-2s numbered 4845-4871 now have UP numbers 471-498 and
SP GP38-2s numbered 4800-4844 now have UP numbers 564-607
I think these are the second set of UP numbers they have been assigned.

[UPTRAIN]

Well I'm not a "new" face but you look at me a "new" face. [:D]

[pimpz26]

pimpz26.....Wonder how many relate the z26 to something on here....Have had many Chevy's over the years and one of them was a GT of the kind in your pics.....10 years without any decline in performance...Did require a one time replacement of the computer brain and it was salty. Even the A/C did not need topping off.....



Berettas are good cars, very reliable. The only major thing I have done to the car is a new tranny (I burned up the old one pulling my jetski). I don't know how a beretta can relate to trains other then they were hauled on trains. PimpZ26 is my screen name on other boards, so I just carried the name to this one.

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pimpz26

pimpz26.....Wonder how many relate the z26 to something on here....Have had many Chevy's over the years and one of them was a GT of the kind in your pics.....10 years without any decline in performance...Did require a one time replacement of the computer brain and it was salty. Even the A/C did not need topping off.....



Berettas are good cars, very reliable. The only major thing I have done to the car is a new tranny (I burned up the old one pulling my jetski). I don't know how a beretta can relate to trains other then they were hauled on trains. PimpZ26 is my screen name on other boards, so I just carried the name to this one.

Does this relate to trains? Does this have flanged wheels?
This is not a Popular Automobile thread![:0]

[locomutt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

Well I'm not a "new" face but you look at me a "new" face. [:D]

Zach,
Just so long as you stay that way,just remember you are still one of the group.

[Mookie]

OK - I know what a car is - Millie is one. But what is a Z26? Isn't a Berretta a gun?

All I know is a Z92 and only from the sign on the side of it!

Confused Mookie

[Anonymous]

I have been coming here only about two months now, and I got two starz. I've been the opposite, I feel an urge to post something on every thread, but I have stuck my foot in my mouth a couple of times, and so now I'm just trying to kick back a little. I'm tempted sometimes to only read threads that are interesting, ...ahem..., things that I already know about, and so I try to read all threads and maybe learn something new, and I think I have. Anyhow, thats my 2 cents.

[Modelcar]

locomutt.....I believe there is enough space for us all on here...a few words of a Beretta momentarily didn' hurt too many...Surely.
Jen: It's a sport version of the Chevrolet Beretta. Yes the name Beretta has been associated with a gun for years. Often wondered how the two companies shared the rights to the name.

[Mookie]

Q - how did I miss that one? When did they make the Chevy Beretta? Maybe that will tell me where I was....

[Modelcar]

M636C....Those DC-3's were a super airplane...rode on many of them including the military version from Korea to Japan and back, etc....What configuration of engines, etc. is a Lockeed model 10 Electra...?

[Modelcar]

Jen....Beretta was brought to market beginning Model year 1987....continued on up to roughly 2000...Not remembering the exact cutoff date. The whole run was done without a body change, so it never went out of style by a newer one...Used a 2.8 and 3.1L V6 engine...Good performance and good fuel economy. The 4-door version was named Corsica.

[Mookie]

Ah - remember the Corsica - just missed the Beretta. Maybe I was distracted.....

Thanx

Jen

[Anonymous]

Stupid question: What happens when a coal train runs into a rain storm? Does the extra weight of the water hurt performance? Does the water drain out? Can you feel the drag?

Also, what happens when a train derails? Is there an environmental cleanup? Fuel? When a coal train derails do you pickup the coal? The current issue of Trains shows a coal train derailment.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by talbanese

Stupid question: What happens when a coal train runs into a rain storm? Does the extra weight of the water hurt performance? Does the water drain out? Can you feel the drag?

Also, what happens when a train derails? Is there an environmental cleanup? Fuel? When a coal train derails do you pickup the coal? The current issue of Trains shows a coal train derailment.

Can't speak to the coal train derailment, although I'd imagine the property owner would probably like it gone, unless he uses it. If there are no property owner issues, cleanup would probably hinge on whether it was economically feasible to do it, and whether there were environmental issues (like a river).

As for other derailments, an environmental cleanup will be required if a hazmat is spilled, including fuel from the engines, which could be upwards of 3000 gallons under the right circumstances. A train of military equipment suffered a minor derailment near here a while back, and the fuel from the trucks on the derailed flat was enough to bring out the hazmat team and Environmental Conservation...

If there's no hazmat, theres just a lot of equipment and freight to clean up, and probably track to repair.

[M636C]

Oops, I missed that question!

The Lockheed 10A is a twin engined low wing monoplane very like a scaled down DC-3. There is a very nice preserved one that appears at our big air shows at Avalon, near Melbourne Victoria on odd numbered years. It was an executive aircraft for BHP in the 1940s and 1950s, and was well looked after. I think Amelia Earhardt was flying one when she disappeared, so there might be photos related to that.

The Electra was enlarged into the "Hudson" which appeared in the movie "Casablanca" and was used as a maritime patrol aircraft during WWII. An even bigger version was the "Ventura". As happens, the Electra was a very sleek looking aircraft, while the later ones just looked fat. They all had twin fins and rudders fitted as endplates to the tailplane.

Peter

[Overmod]

Tiny note -- the amount of water that accumulates on coal in transit will NOT "waste the fuel value in the coal to boil it to steam". With a properly designed steam generator, water content up to about 27% increases, rather than decreases, the amount of steam produced per ton of coal. The water picks up the heat while keeping peak flame temps low, then gives up the heat more effectively than CO2 or other constituents of combustion gas further along in the 'boiler' structure. Note that to the extent water is present in the fuel, it will be unnecessary to use steam injection to keep down NOx generation.

Fine old wives' tale for the power-plant representatives to use as a negotiating point. But not one that we should accept as truth...

See the thermodynamic analysis of the TurboFire XL boiler with steam injection on and off (or the recent lignite-drying grants Secretary Mineta announced) for more evidence if you need it...

[Modelcar]

Peter....Thanks for the response on the Electras. I was wondering if it was a similar plane to the one Amelia Earhardt was filying back in the 30's.
The airplane identification of Lockeed Electra....If I'm not mistaken appeared on a large passenger plane of some years later. I believe I flew from Chicago to Milwaukee some years ago...{probably in the 70's}, on a 4-engined {turbo prop},plane that was under a speed restriction at that time because of some difficulty with wings coming off if flown at it's capable higher speed...{whew, that sounds weird now}, but that is how I remember it.....That plane pushed me back in the seat with more thrust than any jet I had ever flown in.....It had VERY wide propellers and I suppose when feathered for take off it really took a bite out of the air and It REALLY started moving down the air strip...!
Hope I am remembering all that correctly.

[Overmod]

I was going to say something about this earlier... oh well.

Turboprop Electra is a COMPLETELY different aircraft from the Electra of the '30s (which was arguably one of the most beautiful airframes ever crafted of aluminum, btw).

We remember the Electra, in part, for a different reason: it was prone to develop destructive resonance in those big paddle-bladed props at certain critical frequencies, which led to... well, you can guess. Had nothing whatsoever to do with 'wings coming off' in the sense you mean. I concur with your recollection of a sense of acceleration; the props were designed to take maximum advantage of the turboprop shp.

The basic idea was a fairly good one, and it might be mentioned that the Russians used a similar idea to great effect with the Tupolev 'Bears'. However, the development of high-bypass turbojet engines (the oversize 'fans' of which are essentially even more effective turbine-powered-propellers) made hybrid propjet engines less competitive on large transport aircraft... in fact, you now see even the smaller commuter-size planes benefiting from "pure" jet technology with high bypass. Big variable-pitch paddle props with their resonance, runaway and inadvertent-reversal potential, and ... shall we say 'interesting'... behavior when a blade comes loose in flight are not good alternatives.

I just missed the last flight of one of these on the NY-to-Washington shuttle, which IIRC was in 1981. They were good airplanes, and perhaps deserved a better life than they had.

[M636C]

I've never flown on an L-188 Electra, something to do with my age and luck. They were very common in Australia (well, Trans Australian and Ansett had three each in the days of the Canadian inspired "Two Airline Policy" when the fleets, and the schedules were identical). These were the flagships of the internal airlines until the 727-100 arrived (in both fleets on the same day). The smaller and slower Vickers Viscounts did the rest of the long hauls, with Fokker F-27s for the shorter routes. My first two flights were in an F-27 in 1959 (I still have the ticket, with the registration VH-FNA noted on it) and in 1967 in a 727-100.

QANTAS, then only an international carrier, bought four L-188C long range versions just before Boeing built them the ultra long range, ten feet shorter 707-138. QANTAS were almost exclusively equipped with Super Constellations at that time (now there's an elegant aircraft) so the Electra probably seemed like a good idea at the time. The Electras saw their time out on shorter routes until QANTAS went all-707.

I've been told that the L-188 Electra resonance problem was overcome by changing the angle of the engines upward from horizontal by about two degrees. This was done on the TAA aircraft before delivery, if I recall correctly.

During my time in Port Hedland (1976-78) an Electra lettered for Ansett Cargo flew in with a complete computer control system for the port conveyor system. It sat at the Airport for a couple of hours while the delicate equipment was unloaded, with a single engine running. Apparently they needed air starters, which were not available outside the big cities. When they set up the computer system they found it wouldn't work on the local power, which was influenced unfavourably by all the iron ore handling equipment, and a slightly higher than standard voltage adopted to overcome long low power lines. It was then run for some time on a Volvo diesel generator, until the alternator from the Volvo was coupled to a synchronous motor found somewhere and the computer got its own heavily isolated supply.

I had a horror flight reminiscent of Mark's, through Queensland storms in an F-27 in 1972 (I was in First Class because my allocated seat was already taken - it was like a roller coaster with full three course meal service). I changed to a DC-9 in Brisbane. The DC-9 had two other passengers (it was a late flight) and apparently no cargo of consequence. When the brakes released I was pushed back in the seat like never before and we climbed well above the weather in minutes, apparently at 45 degrees. I've had bad flights in DC-9s, too, but I'll always have a soft spot for them after that night.

But back to the L-188 Electra. At the time they emerged, the De Havilland Comet was still around and BOAC flew them to Australia. The Comet was described as having its engines "buried in the wings". The appearance of the L-188 Electra with the low aspect ratio wings and large nacelles was such that an English observer described them as having "the wings completely buried in the engines".

Peter

[M636C]

I should have mentioned that the Electra at Port Hedland with only one engine running sounded quite loud from (inside) the Mt Newman Railroad Offices about ten miles from the airport. I also recall seeing a neighbour (a British Royal Navy Officer) depart for London on a Bristol Britannia, before enough Comets were available for the Australia run. The Bristol Proteus turboprops also had air starters and were very loud, both during and after starting.

One Sunday during 1972 I was lying in bed when I heard the sound of radial engines, and looking out, saw a Catalina fly over. I had my Jeans on over my pyjamas and was at the airport five minutes later to see it taxi in. It was being used for magnetic anomaly mineral surveys. It still exists, but hasn't flown in years, but I got photos of it then and later while it was still working.

One morning in 1970, I went to Sydney Harbour and photographed the Short Sandringham arrive from Lord Howe Island, and that afternoon photographed the C38 Pacific on the last southbound steam hauled "Newcastle Express".

Henry Ford kept a NYC (MCRR) Atlantic, for which we should all be grateful, along with so much else in the collection, and it is quite elegant, but yes, I like the big locomotives.

Peter

[Modelcar]

Wow, what a bunch of exciting stories....First, in reply to above I for sure was not implying the L-188 was was anything like the Electra's of the 30's.
My horror story of air flights can't match any above but seems we all have some....One of mine was with the pilot seemingly trying to find a spot to land [at night through the fog], coming into Detroit ...We were on a passenger D-C3....and I mean it was foggy. We were coming from Marion, In. to Detroit and we were circling and bouncing from side to side and then we'd pull up and around again, and you could see absoutely....just blackness outside the window, with exception of a few sparks and fire coming out the engine exaust...which was normal to see on those planes...and finally, after several of above maneuvers, and I was really wondering if we were on our last flight.....Finally, I saw tops of houses and other landmarks flying by the window with holes in the fog. We were only a couple hundred ft. at best, from the ground when we broke through that mess....and made our landing. Needless to say we were glad to get out of that plane.
Another time our flight from Az, was on final approach into O'hare and wow...all of a sudden the plane lurched and the power sounded and we were in full take off mode...! We had been almost on the ground and now were pulling up sharply.....Upon crossing a perpendicular runway I saw an airplane coming towards us from my left, looking out the window......! After a moment or two the pilot came on the intercom and in a calm manner said something like..."Folks, sorry for the inconvienience, they didn't seem to have room for us that time...". Well, from what I saw that was an understatement but anyway, we were able to get out of the way of the opposing plane approaching on the intersecting runway and we all walked away safely. That airplane was either a DC-8 or 707 that we were on...They were early in their newness yet at that time....Not brand new, but rather fresh.

[Modelcar]

....PS: One more tail....On a flight from Az. another time as we took off at McCarren Field there seemed to be some unusual sounds but thought not too much about it until later as we gained altitude and leveled off and officer came back and started to rip up the carpet on the floor and in a few minutes we learned he was finding an inspection opening or whatever one would call it and trying to look at something pertaining to the landing gear....It turned out we left something laying on the take off strip at Vegas...!
We were prepared to be in a certain position upon landing about 3 hrs. later and the landing was smooth and perfect to the relief of us all....but the runway was lined with emergency vehicles, etc.....and after we were tied up at the terminal...[again O'hare], I made it into the terminal and got a peek out the terminal windows and it looked like a beehive with people under that plane around the landing gear...but once again, I was on the ground safely. There's more but that's enough for now. By the way, that was a 4 engine jet of the time too...don't remember which one. I was even glad to get on our communter flight to complete the flight to Muncie.

[Junctionfan]

Did anybody see the Hudson in the U.S being pulled by a red SOO engine?

[Anonymous]

Thanks Guys!

[Anonymous]

Stupid Question time!!!

Why do some Amtrak trains sound their horns, before entering a station, and other don't? I have been witnessing this all summer and cannot discover a pattern.

The trains sound their horns about a 1/4 mile out. All have their bells ringing during station approach.

Thanks.