Well it's been a-while since I posted on here that having been said, I am going to be doing some railfanning in the Kenosha/Pleasent Prairie area, and would like to know if the caol trains to Pleasent Prairie power plant are UP or CP? I saw something that said it was CP if that is the case then why is the loop track off the UP milwaukee still there? To see what i mean go to http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&resnum=0&q=pleasant%20prairie&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl and let me know thank you.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRRThey are CP now, since about the beginning of this year, after being on the CNW/UP since the opening of the plant. UP wouldn't mind getting them back. So why would it take out its loop track?
The coal trains come to PP from the south, and usually have BNSF power.
If you're interested in the history of the area, just north of Bain Station road on the west side of both the CP and UP lines, you will see the concrete bases from what once were the interlocking towers for the KD line. The (former CNW New Line, now UP Milwaukee) subdivision was originally built as a double-track main all the way from Proviso to Butler.
Between 30th and 39th Avenues in Kenosha is where the former Farm Yard was located. This was an 11-track yard at one time. Just east of 30th Ave is where the KD line crossed the North Shore line (which by the way ran right through the AMC manufacturing plant). Bain used to be the home of another 11-track yard, which used to be used to load auto racks with cars amde at AMC.
The KD subdivision ran from Kenosha's lakefront all the way to Rockford; the tracks running northeast-southwest through Kenosha are all that is left of the line. The line crossed the CNW and the Milwaukee Road at the above-mentioned towers, and also crossed the CNW Harvard sub at Harvard. I do not know where the KD line crossed the SOO Line tracks (somewhere around Silver Lake).
Interesting, is vulcan still running? And how long do you think it will be before UP get back the coal trains to the PP plant? Finall did the farm yard ever get sold?
Currently the BNSF and CP have the contract to haul coal into Pleasant Prairie- coal contracts last about 5-7 years (on average) and it is not unusual to see plants alternate between BNSF and UP to provide the service. So the UP has no reason to tear out their access tracks to PP.
To add a little on Zardoz's history points- the interlocking at the north end of Pleasant Prairie was called Truesdell where the KD (Kenosha Division) crossed the MILW and CNW "New Line". North of Truesdell was Bain- which was the AMC loadout on the New Line. The remainder of the KD line between Truesdell and Kenosha is the Farm Subdivision now. On the way to Rockford the KD Line crossed the Soo Line main at Silver Lake, the CNW's Lake Geneva branch at Genoa City (called Genoa Jct. in timetables), between Genoa City and Hebron it crossed the MILW Rondout-Janesville line (now the WSOR), Harvard it interlocked with the CNW Wisconsin Division main line on the east end of town and they ran together to the west side where they diverged again, the KD line running towards Chemung (still in use as the Chicago and Chemung shortline). The line then crossed the CNW line that ran from DeKalb north to Beloit at Caledonia before heading into Rockford and linking up with the CNW's line from West Chicago to Rockford (and beyond to Freeport).
We see loaded eastbound coal trains on the BNSF come through Aurora on the triple track line all the time and many have WPS reporting marks on the cars...I believe this stands for Wisconsin Public Service...could these be headed for Pleasant Prairie? If yes, what is the routing they take? Thanks
wilmette2210 Well it's been a-while since I posted on here that having been said, I am going to be doing some railfanning in the Kenosha/Pleasent Prairie area, and would like to know if the caol trains to Pleasent Prairie power plant are UP or CP? I saw something that said it was CP if that is the case then why is the loop track off the UP milwaukee still there? To see what i mean go to http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&resnum=0&q=pleasant%20prairie&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl and let me know thank you.
Another way to look at this is that it is in the best interest of the utility to have connections to both railroads as a way to play one off against the other. This is not unlike the customer who installs a railroad siding and then never or rarely uses it but has it there as a subtle reminder to the trucking companies that it is not captive to them.As to the origin of the term "KD" or "KD line," I always heard that it meant "Kenosha Diagonal" rather than "Kenosha Division." It's not a big deal but I thought I would share that.
John Timm
I've never seen a 'WPS' car at pleasant Prairie (and I live about 1/2 mile from the plant); every car I've seen in there, or delivered to there, had 'WEPX' (for Wisconsin Electric Power).
I believe the 'WPS' cars are for the coal plants in northern Wisconsin (Wausau, Stevens Point, etc).
WPSX cars are for either Green Bay or Weston (Wausau). Usually the open bottom cars are for Green Bay and the rotary dump cars are for Weston
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
desertdogAs to the origin of the term "KD" or "KD line," I always heard that it meant "Kenosha Diagonal" rather than "Kenosha Division."
Actually, the original name was the "Kenosha, Racine, & Rock Island RR" until it was sold to the C&NW on 1/7/1864.
A general circular was distributed 6/10/1864 by C&NW president William B. Ogden stating, "That portion between Chicago and Fulton, and Chicago and Freeport, including the Fox River Valley and Beloit & Madison line, will form and be known as the Galena Division. "That portion between Clinton and Nevada (IA) will form the Iowa Division. "That portion between Chicago and Fort Howard will be known as the Wisconsin Division. "The portion between Kenosha and Rockford will be known as the Kenosha Division."
The line was known as the Kenosha Division even before the CG&U-C&NW merger.
Info from "The KD Line" by P.L. Behrens 1986
wilmette2210 Interesting, is vulcan still running? And how long do you think it will be before UP get back the coal trains to the PP plant? Finall did the farm yard ever get sold?
The Farm yard was sold a while back, but I do not remember to whom. There is still a siding north of the main, but all of the tracks south of the main are gone.
zardoz desertdogAs to the origin of the term "KD" or "KD line," I always heard that it meant "Kenosha Diagonal" rather than "Kenosha Division." Actually, the original name was the "Kenosha, Racine, & Rock Island RR" until it was sold to the C&NW on 1/7/1864. A general circular was distributed 6/10/1864 by C&NW president William B. Ogden stating, "That portion between Chicago and Fulton, and Chicago and Freeport, including the Fox River Valley and Beloit & Madison line, will form and be known as the Galena Division. "That portion between Clinton and Nevada (IA) will form the Iowa Division. "That portion between Chicago and Fort Howard will be known as the Wisconsin Division. "The portion between Kenosha and Rockford will be known as the Kenosha Division." The line was known as the Kenosha Division even before the CG&U-C&NW merger. Info from "The KD Line" by P.L. Behrens 1986
Thanks much,
Just as a primer for the power plants and what cars they normally get-
WPSX (red/yellow bottom dump)- Green Bay (Weston as needed)
WPSX (aluminum)- Weston (Wausau)
WEPX- (Pleasant Prairie, Oak Creek)
EDGX- Edgewater Generating Station (Sheboygan)
COLX- Columbia (Portage)
DAPX- Dairyland Power (Alma)
Occasionally if power demand is at a higher output than normal other private cars (or BNSF and UP system owned cars) may be used on these trains as well.
Right now BNSF holds the Alma, Wausau (with CN and CP), Green Bay (with CN), Portage (with CP) and Pleasant Prairie (with CP) contracts, while UP has Edgewater and Oak Creek. Smaller amounts of non-PRB coal are used by the paper mills in the state and some arrives in former Omaha Public Power (OMAX) hoppers and INRD or HLMX (ex-CNW) hoppers. These can be seen in Canadian National freights.
Yes, you are allowed to have a scanner while mobile in Wisconsin.
For more info: http://www.afn.org/~afn09444/scanlaws/
At Pleasant Prairie you can hear the hotbox detectors for the CP at mp 37, mp 56, and mp 72; for the UP you can hear the Gurnee detector at mp44 easily, and if you have a good antenna you can hear the one at mp 63 (you can also hear the CN detectors at mp 54 and 66, but you are too far away to do anything about it).
Are you coming to the area just for railfanning? If so, and it is on Wednesday, and if you're interested, perhaps I could give you a short tour of the area (I live only a mile from the PP coal plant). Send me a PM if so interested. But be forwarned: there is not too much going on around here rail-wise, perhaps 2-3 UP trains and maybe 6-10 CP freights in addition to the 7 Amtrak Hiawathas and the 2 Empire Builders daily (of course not all of the freights will come thru during the daylight hours). There is a nice park in Pleasant Prairie (Lake Andrea) that you can safely sit and hear all the radio traffic; it is close enough to both the CP and UP that when you hear a detector you have plenty of time to get to a watching and/or photograpy location.
If you want a nice place to safely watch the CN freight and suburban action, I suggest the Metra depot in Antioch; if you are only interested in freight, then there is a nice park along the tracks in Burlington, just south of downtown.
Well I will more than likely go up sometime this week, what about Waukegan?What will see there other then commuter scouts? I might go up there tomorrow or Tuesday, and up to Pleasent Parrie on Wednesday.
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=93505&nseq=5
On the picture there is a WEPX coaltrain.
The 6th and 10th car are 'Trinity Aeroflo' cars.
For as far I know, WEPX doesn't have Trinity aeroflows.
Does anyone know wich reportingmarks these cars have?
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