Trains.com

TP&W a BNSF heritage road?

6379 views
10 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • 965 posts
TP&W a BNSF heritage road?
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:28 AM

The original Toledo Peoria & Western was a regional railroad in Illinois and Indiana and aquired by ATSF in the early 1980s.  By the mid-1980s the TP&W was fully incorporated into the ATSF with it’s EMD GP30/35/38-2s and a single GP40 repainted into ATSF colors.  The TP&W’s incorporation into the ATSF was short-lived and in 1989 the TP&W trackage was spun off again.  The TP&W was reborn.  The current TP&W is now owned by Railamerica, with locos now painted into the shortline/regional operator’s red, white and blue colors.  I’m wondering since ATSF and later BNSF kept the former TP&W EMDs which are still on their roster, could the TP&W be considered a BNSF heritage railroad along with ATSF, BN, Frisco, CB&Q, GN, NP and the SP&S? 

http://www.locophotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=106101

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=89400&nseq=9

 

Like, if BNSF pulls a UP and have heritage-themed locos, should the TP&W be included too?  The CB&Q and later BN also had the C&S and FWR subsidiaries, though I guess those wouldn’t count since their diesels were always in CB&Q or BN paint and markings with the C&S or FWD reporting marks in small letters, sort of like IC or GTW locos in CN paint. 

 

       

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Mesa, AZ
  • 778 posts
Posted by silicon212 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:11 AM

Since the TP&W is not officially a fallen flag, I don't think it would qualify as a 'heritage' paint job on a locomotive if the BNSF were to do such a thing.  It's now a separate road again.

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Thursday, October 29, 2009 5:30 AM
The likelihood of that would be about the equivalent of UP doing a Durango & Silverton or Cumbres & Toltec locomotive.

Or, even if TP&W were still a part of BNSF, the likelihood would be about the same as Litchfield & Madison, CGW, Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf, or Spokane International, and probably less likely than SSW or Texas & Pacific.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    July 2001
  • From: Shelbyville, Kentucky
  • 1,967 posts
Posted by SSW9389 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:51 AM

Has anyone asked Rail America if they would do a TP&W heritage unit? Just a thought for now. The below photo was taken very near the end of the old TP&W before it was merged into Santa Fe. Note the apparent Santa Fe horn on top of TP&W 2011.

COTTON BELT: Runs like a Blue Streak!
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Indianapolis, Indiana
  • 2,434 posts
Posted by gabe on Thursday, October 29, 2009 8:53 AM

I think the TP&W is something the BNSF would rather forget . . . had they not been distracted by it, they could have purchased a Rock Island line to Memphis that might have actually been useful . . .

By the way, as a Litchfield and Madison lover, you can imagine who honored I am to see it used in the same sentence as CGW, Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf . . .

Gabe

  • Member since
    March 2016
  • From: Burbank IL (near Clearing)
  • 13,540 posts
Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, October 29, 2009 10:11 AM

I'm not sure when it started, but I remember TP&W as a joint ATSF/PRR (50% each) subsidiary.  ATSF later bought out the PRR(PC) share and absorbed TP&W directly into ATSF, probably to use it as a Chicago bypass.  The abandonments by Conrail of various Big Four and Panhandle lines in Indiana pretty much left TP&W as a bypass to nowhere.

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 146 posts
Posted by bn13814 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:03 AM

TP&W was merged with Santa Fe January 1, 1984 to February 2, 1989 so while there's some heritage there, it would hardly qualify for a Heritage Unit, however, TP&W is historically tied to BNSF predecessor CB&Q. It's first line - Peoria to Burlington, Iowa via Galesburg - was completed by the Peoria & Oquawka in 1857 (that east of Galesburg, anyway). Financial problems led to receivership then lease and eventual purchase by the CB&Q in 1864. By then, however, P&O had built its Eastern Extension from Peoria to the Indiana State Line. Receivership led to reorganization and adoption of the TP&W name ("Toledo, Peoria & Warsaw"). The railroad constructed its "West End" by 1868.

TP&W was eventually acquired jointly by the CB&Q and Pennsylvania in 1893, an arrangement that remained until another period of receivership in 1925. George P. McNear gained control in 1927 and modernized the property, but poor labor relations led to long and frequent strikes, or threats of strike. During WW2, TP&W was the sole carrier placed under federal control due to labor troubles. McNear regained control of the carrier following the war, but then died from an assassin's bullet. New management under J. Russel Coulter brought the TP&W to prosperity, so much that it attracted the attention of the M&StL. To prevent M&StL from acquiring the carrier, the Santa Fe and Pennsylvania Railroads proposed joint control, which TP&W's stockholders (mostly McNear family) accepted. M&StL lost its battle at the ICC, in federal court and ultimately, the US Superme Court, which in December 1959 upheld ICC's original 1957 decision in favor of Santa Fe-Pennsy.

The Santa Fe purchased TP&W in January 1960 and immediately sold 50% to the Pennsy. An eleven-member Board of Directors was elected in March 1960. The NYC-Pennsy merger of 1968 gave Penn Central control of 50% of the TP&W, but kept it following the 1976 Conrail merger. Santa Fe purchased PC's shares in July 1979. With ICC approval, Santa Fe began full control of TP&W in March 1981, and dissolved its Board of Directors.

Suddenly, things went badly for the TP&W. The Rock Island's liquidation had already caused a significant loss of trafifc, but Conrail's June 1981 cancellation of interline tariffs with TP&W via Logansport, Indiana obliterated most of the road's overhead traffic, forcing the carrier to downsize its operations and workforce. Bankruptcy loomed and so Santa Fe decided to merge TP&W into its system.

After gaining independence on February 3, 1989, TP&W remained tied to Santa Fe, and also grew close to CB&Q successor Burlington Northern, with which it signed a haulage agreement for intermodal traffic moving between Bushnell and the new (1983) intermodal facility at Remington, Indiana. TP&W gained trackage rights on BN's Galesburg - Peoria line, the original Peoria & Oqauwka, as part of a deal to keep it out of the BNSF merger case. Operations began in early 1996.

The TP&W-BNSF intermodal partnership ended in early 2004, but this year, BNSF Logistics designated TP&W's East Peoria and Remington (IN) terminals as staging facilities for wind turbine components. TP&W continues to handle BNSF carload freight between Galesburg and Peoria.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 1,486 posts
Posted by Victrola1 on Thursday, October 29, 2009 2:56 PM

 What about a Peoria & Oquawka heritage locomotive? It would be an open palate paint scheme for a diesel.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: KS
  • 999 posts
Posted by SFbrkmn on Thursday, November 5, 2009 6:12 PM

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Denver / La Junta
  • 10,820 posts
Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, November 5, 2009 7:57 PM

SFbrkmn

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

SFb: Wander into La Junta at all?... The one spot/ locomotive covered pit steel building you see out at the top of the yard on  the north side (north of the depot) began life as the TP&W Peoria paint shop.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
  • Member since
    September 2005
  • 965 posts
Posted by Lyon_Wonder on Thursday, November 5, 2009 9:26 PM

SFbrkmn

It is often overlooked and mostly unknown that during the 1980's, SF did operate trk in IN. After the takeover, I can recall seeing many former TPW grain cars in a variety of colos roaming the rails in KS. After SF renumbered its GP38 fleet from 3500 to 2300 series in 1985, one could always detect a former TPW eng as they lacked dynamic brks, no roof mounted strobe light or cab ac (the latter two were later added)

 

TP&W's sole GP40 ended up on ATSF's roster as #2964, making it the only GP40 on the roster.  Unfortunately this single GP40 was destroyed in a collision at Pico Rivera, CA on January 28, 1988.  ATSF and later BNSF have 10 GP40Xs, which are pre-production GP50s with the 645F.  And of course BNSF has former BN GP40 rebuilds.

http://atsf.railfan.net/gp40

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy