I've been reading some RR history stories and whenever a train fouled the main line in the old days a crewman was sent back or forward along the track to warn any approaching trains of the danger. With cabooses gone and two man crews, how is this handled today? By radio, or does a crewman still have to physically guard his train?
Generally speaking, on track controlled by issued authority (track warrants, Form D's, EC-1's, etc), the need for flagging is greatly diminished - only one train is theoretically allowed to be on a given segment of track at one time.
In the day of timetable and trainorder operation, railroads operated on the assumption that trains were where they were supposed to be, when they were supposed to be there. Thusly, if a train made an unscheduled stop, it was necessary to protect the train against other trains that assumed they had clear track because, according to the schedule (or their train orders), they did.
Of course, we all know about "assume." A good many wrecks were caused because someone got it wrong and weren't where they were supposed to be...
NORAC gives distances that a flag must be from the standing train, dependent on normal authorized track speed, but the first line of that rule (131) begins "When flag protection is required..."
The bulk of the section on flagging in NORAC deals with track workers, not stopped trains. The one exception is in ABS territory, especially when trains are not required to stop and stay at red signals.
Of course, the radio is also a wonderful thing. You can bet the DS will be notified of any unplanned stops.
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However, if there are multiple parallel tracks, there could still be a train that is authorized to run on an adjoining track, which may now be fouled by the stopped train, even if no other train is supposed to be on the stopped train's track (only). So in theory a need for flagging or other protection would still exist there - which is now provided by the radio far faster and easier.
- Paul North.
gacusterI've been reading some RR history stories and whenever a train fouled the main line in the old days a crewman was sent back or forward along the track to warn any approaching trains of the danger. With cabooses gone and two man crews, how is this handled today? By radio, or does a crewman still have to physically guard his train?
The conductor grabs a flagging kit and goes for a walk(3000 yds past the tail end of the train) unless relieved of flagging responsibility by the RTC. The engineer gets on the radio and talks to the RTC and broadcasts the emergency call(Emergency Emergency Emergency. Train 123 1234 North stopped in emergency at mile 12.3 Canada Sub) on the standby channel every 90 seconds.
enr2099 The conductor grabs a flagging kit and goes for a walk(3000 yds past the tail end of the train) unless relieved of flagging responsibility by the RTC. The engineer gets on the radio and talks to the RTC and broadcasts the emergency call(Emergency Emergency Emergency. Train 123 1234 North stopped in emergency at mile 12.3 Canada Sub) on the standby channel every 90 seconds.
Dan
CNW 6000Forgive the silly question, but what's "the standby channel"?
The channel designated for communications on that line - and that everyone else will be listening to.
tree68In the day of timetable and trainorder operation,
There was a rule in the Uniform Code of Operating Rules (UCOR), used by the CPR, stating that the crew members flagging had to proceed up and down the track so many telegraph pole spacing lengths to help them more easily determine the correct distance in feet. Then in the special instructions, if any, for each sub in the employee timetable, if there was any deviations from the standard spacing, the mileages where the deviation occurred were listed, and a different number of telegraph pole spacings was specified. This distance would vary according to track speed.
Radio's, of course, made things safer, but it eliminated the need for telegraph lines. How do they determine the correct distance to go out?
AgentKid
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I'll admit to not having a copy of nor ever have read the NORAC code so am not as familiar with it as I was with the former AAR Standard Code. But, isn't there still the phrase somewhere to the effect that "when in doubt...the safest course must be taken"? In otherwords, yes, use the radio to inform all who can hear but also in case of second track or possiblity of unknown train or trains in the area, or no radio response from other known trains, that flagging of some kind is in order?
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sunbeamHere's the GCOR rule 6.19 - Flag protection: http://www.trainweb.com/gcor/movement.html#6.19.1
Hopefully a couple of our Class 1 railroaders will chime in with their experience on the matter.
See also 6.23 Emergency Stop or Severe Slack Action a little further down on the same linked web page. [Thanks for that, too ]
AgentKidtree68In the day of timetable and trainorder operation, Radio's, of course, made things safer, but it eliminated the need for telegraph lines. How do they determine the correct distance to go out? AgentKid
Well for starters mileposts still exist. 3000 yds is roughly 1.7 miles. The conductor would have to walk 1.5 to 2 miles past the tail end of the train. He'd use mileposts, bridge markers, crossing markers,etc. to determine how far he has to go. Some rail lines even have half-mileposts(The ex-BC Rail Squamish Sub has half-mile markers).
Some trains do still have brakemen, if there is a brakeman available he goes for the long walk to protect the tail end while the conductor walks the other way to protect the head end and the engineer handles the radio.
Thank you all for the excellent answers.
99.9% of the time in Class I Track Warrant and/or DTC operations trains are relieved of flag protection by the Train Dispatcher during the issuance of the track occupancy authority.
With the 2 man crew being on the head end of a 9000 foot train to provide the 9000 foot flag protection of the rear of the train the flag man would have a 18000 foot walk, on main track ballast in the dark of night with a brakeman's lantern....it would take approximately 1 hour to get the flagman in position and another hour to recall the flagman and all this discounts that the flagman is the only man on the ground and would also be required to remedy the issue that brought the train to a stop. Flag protection against following movements is not practical in the operation of today's Class I railroads.
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BaltACD Flag protection against following movements is not practical in the operation of today's Class I railroads.
Flag protection against following movements is not practical in the operation of today's Class I railroads.
Impractical or not, it is still a rule. You cannot violate a rule because you deem it impractical.
102. EMERGENCY STOP PROTECTION(a) The crew of a movement stopping as a result of an emergency brakeapplication, or other abnormal condition, which may cause an adjacent maintrack to be obstructed, must:(i) immediately transmit a radio broadcast on the standby channel in thefollowing manner:“EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, (movement) on(designated track), stopped (stopping) in emergency between mile_______ and mile_______ (subdivision)”;(ii) as soon as possible, advise the RTC of the movement’s emergency stoplocation, indicating whether adjacent tracks and tracks of other railwaysare liable to be obstructed;(iii) repeat the emergency broadcast outlined in (i) at intervals not exceeding90 seconds until advised by the RTC that all affected movements on othertracks have been secured, stopped or advised of the emergency stop, or itis known that adjacent tracks or tracks of other railways are safe and clearfor movements;(iv) if unable to comply with (i), (ii), (iii), the adjacent track must be protectedas per Rule 35(b) EMERGENCY PROTECTION.
35. EMERGENCY PROTECTION(b) A flagman must go the required distance from the condition, and in eachdirection when possible, to ensure that an approaching movement will havesufficient time and distance to be able to stop before the condition. Unlessotherwise provided, a flagman must go at least two miles from the condition toa location where there will be an unobstructed view of the flagman from anapproaching movement.When a movement is observed approaching, the flagman must display a stopsignal using a red flag by day or a lighted red fusee by night or when daysignals cannot be plainly seen. The flagman must continue to display a stopsignal until the movement being flagged has:(i) acknowledged the stop signal with engine whistle signal 14 (b) (twoshort);(ii) come to a stop; or(iii) reached the location of the flagman.
enr2099 BaltACD Flag protection against following movements is not practical in the operation of today's Class I railroads. Impractical or not, it is still a rule. You cannot violate a rule because you deem it impractical. 102. EMERGENCY STOP PROTECTION(a) The crew of a movement stopping as a result of an emergency brakeapplication, or other abnormal condition, which may cause an adjacent maintrack to be obstructed, must:(i) immediately transmit a radio broadcast on the standby channel in thefollowing manner:“EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, EMERGENCY, (movement) on(designated track), stopped (stopping) in emergency between mile_______ and mile_______ (subdivision)”;(ii) as soon as possible, advise the RTC of the movement’s emergency stoplocation, indicating whether adjacent tracks and tracks of other railwaysare liable to be obstructed;(iii) repeat the emergency broadcast outlined in (i) at intervals not exceeding90 seconds until advised by the RTC that all affected movements on othertracks have been secured, stopped or advised of the emergency stop, or itis known that adjacent tracks or tracks of other railways are safe and clearfor movements;(iv) if unable to comply with (i), (ii), (iii), the adjacent track must be protectedas per Rule 35(b) EMERGENCY PROTECTION. 35. EMERGENCY PROTECTION(b) A flagman must go the required distance from the condition, and in eachdirection when possible, to ensure that an approaching movement will havesufficient time and distance to be able to stop before the condition. Unlessotherwise provided, a flagman must go at least two miles from the condition toa location where there will be an unobstructed view of the flagman from anapproaching movement.When a movement is observed approaching, the flagman must display a stopsignal using a red flag by day or a lighted red fusee by night or when daysignals cannot be plainly seen. The flagman must continue to display a stopsignal until the movement being flagged has:(i) acknowledged the stop signal with engine whistle signal 14 (b) (twoshort);(ii) come to a stop; or(iii) reached the location of the flagman.
You're right, but if you cannot get a hold of the RTC, then you still have to go flagging. Common practice around here is the conductor starts walking immediately, then heads back after relief from flag protection is provided by the RTC/dispatcher.
We're talking two different scenarios here. BaltACD is talking about the rule flagging against following trains on the same track because the train slowed down or had a controlled stop for whatever reason. enr2099 is talking about providing protection on an adjacent track when being stopped by an emergency brake application because that track may be blocked by your derailed train.
Both rules are still in effect, but both rules also have relief from providing protection in them. When ever we go into emergency, the first thing we do is dial 9-1-1 on our radio. Almost instantly it is answered by the dispatcher, many times also by other dispatchers who use the same radio tower and the corridor manager. Once the dispatcher has been contacted they contact other trains that may be affected, telling them to contact the train in emergency before passing it. It would take longer to walk two miles than to contact the dispatcher. In the unlikely event you couldn't get through by radio, yes you would still need to go out to stop an oncoming train.
Actually, sometimes dialing 9-1-1 isn't the first thing. If you see a train or headlight approaching on an adjacent track, you contact them by radio and let them know what's happening.
Flagging against a following train on the same track is still in the book, but the exceptions that relieve providing protection almost ensure that no train will ever have to provide protection again. The GCOR rule 6.19.1 linked above is to an older version. You really need to read 6.19 to get the exceptions. Again, the current fifth edition of GCOR relieves you of providing protection if the rear of your train is withing ABS protected by two block signals or one block signal and one distant signal, within Block Registery Territory, CTC, DTC, TWC, interlocking limits or yard limits. There is almost no circumstance where the rear end of a train isn't protected in this manner.
Jeff
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