I went to an Antique store today with my mother. I found 2 papers from NS from the early 90's. (1990-1991) The first reads like this,
Norfolk Southern Corperation
Western Region - Decatur Division
173 E. Condit Street
Decatur Illinois 62521
February 4, 1991
7-27
Messrs:
Arrange to report to the Trainmasters office, Benton Street, Peru, Indiana, at 9:00 AM CST, Friday February, Friday 8, 1991, for a formal investagation to determine your resposability, if any, in connection with your failure to stop short of derail on the North Staly Lead, Lafayette, Indiana, at approximately 8:50 AM, January 30, 1991, while you were performing service as crew members on Train 110D1.
If you desire to have a representative and/or witnesses present, arrange for their presance.
You should arrange to contactthe crew dispatcher, if nessacery, to mark off to attend this formal Investagation.
G. D. Meyers
Road Foreman of Engines
Witnesses:
G. D. Meyers, Road Foreman of Engines
Others may be called.
Operating Subsidiares: Norfolk and Western Railway Company/ Southern Railway Company/ North American Van Lines, Inc.
The other is of some thing to all train and engiene scervice employees. It is the Voulntary Separation Program, and was apperantly volentary. Iny info on these 2 doc's would be helpfull.
Thanks!,
Justin
The road to to success is always under construction. _____________________________________________________________________________ When the going gets tough, the tough use duct tape.
I regularly hunt RR antiques (a.k.a. "railroadiana") at shops and you can find a lot of paper material such as this. I think people keep stuff like that in their attics, basements, file cabinets, etc., then if they pass-on or just decide to clean-house it goes to the antique shop. The first sounds like a fairly routine formal notice to come in and explain yourself, but certainly not one I'd want to receive (I'm a software engineer and when we get called to account it's called an internal audit or just hate e-mail).
Bubba,
Are you sure the Train No wasnt' D11-01? Locals on NS use a letter (usually the first letter of the Division Name i.e L for Lake, P for Pocahantas, and D for Decatur) followed by a number 01-99. Almost all train symbols on NS are three-characters, so 110D01 doesn't fit the pattern. Since this was before the Conrail split, there were only letters at the beginning.
rrnut282 Bubba, Are you sure the Train No wasnt' D11-01? Locals on NS use a letter (usually the first letter of the Division Name i.e L for Lake, P for Pocahantas, and D for Decatur) followed by a number 01-99. Almost all train symbols on NS are three-characters, so 110D01 doesn't fit the pattern. Since this was before the Conrail split, there were only letters at the beginning.
First off, you can call me Justin
I have the paper right in front of me now. It just says Train 110D1. No hashes, or dashes. I wonder if it was a glitch???
Justin,
What you have posted is the formal certified letter that the crew received informing them to come to the office for an "investigation"...which most likely resulted in one or more of them being fired.
Since it is dated 1991, you might consider that one or more of these guys still work for the railroad, so you just posted the notice of them being fired....
How would you like it if your "notice of termination" was posted on the internet?
23 17 46 11
That someone got fired is mere speculation from the information given. FWIW, such a "sensitive" document should have been destroyed or filed safely away, not put up for public sale at an antique dealer.
I'd blame someone farther up the chain of possession.
bubbajustin It just says Train 110D1
Trains in the 100-110 range were transfer jobs up until TOP was rolled out in 2002.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Justin the train number is correct it only gets a letter in front if it is a local but that train was not a local. and yes that is a formal letter telling those guys to come in for a hearing as they was already off pending to see if they get to come back to work. how that made it to you is strange because every investigation ive been in when you sign off they tell you this is a needs to know bases and nobody needs to know. justin just delete the names from your post and everything else should be ok
How many of you railroaders on here remeber being told and telling the new guys you ever trained that if you get over a derail that they will talk bad about you , and here it is 20 years later and they still cant bury it they still talking about them. LOL
If these letters were part of the railroad's file they would not have been carelessly thrown away and made public. Evidently the letters were thrown out or sold by the recipient or his family if they were part of an estate. It is unfortunate they have been made public, I suppose, but often people sell things enmasse before weeding out what might be embarrassing to say the least; that is if they even knew what they were looking at. Don't blame Justin for anything other than being a little indescrete in publishing the names on the letters.
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There, I deleted the names just to be safe. Do you think that I should mail the letter back to NS? I don't want to spread info about something I'm not supposed to. I'm sorry, if I offended anyone.
Something from 1991? Is anyone gonna remember that? I wouldn't worry about mailing it back. You already deleted the names involved. That should be enough.
bubbajustin There, I deleted the names just to be safe. Do you think that I should mail the letter back to NS? I don't want to spread info about something I'm not supposed to. I'm sorry, if I offended anyone. Justin
No you keep it just remeber that if you was caught doing something at school would you want it posted on here? the post is fine just watch the names the same thing goes we dont like our pics taken and are names posted. and when you go to work for the railroad and you recieve that paper then you know what your up against. and you can frame it with that one.
That should be fine, and thank you.
Picky, picky, picky, first of all, we don't know that they were fired, let alone out of service. They ran over a derail, I got here too late to see who they were, don't know if it was a Decatur crew or a Peru crew, would have been interesting to know. There's been a lot of turnover since 1991.
Secondly, that's the letter of the notice of investigation, I would almost be willing to bet it ended up there as the end result of a estate.
As for the train symbol, that would be right for that time period, We're talking 18 years ago, as best as I recall, the symbol D1 means Decatur and 1 symbolizes which day of the week it originated, IIRC. I don't think that it symbolized line segment, like it does today.
Vally just so you know i recognized 2 of the names as decator guys , I didnt go and see if the names matched current roster, or if they was just related. but its better this way. I know if my stuff from the 90s showed up on here i wouldnt like it.
Investigation being held in Peru, usually, the accused party has the investigation in their home terminal, so wondering about that. Decatur engine crew?
As for stuff showing up, we wouldn't know it was you, would we.
nope not me never got thru a switch or over a derail. my buttocks clamped down hard on the seat cushion a time or two.
ValleyX Picky, picky, picky, first of all, we don't know that they were fired, let alone out of service. They ran over a derail, I got here too late to see who they were, don't know if it was a Decatur crew or a Peru crew, would have been interesting to know. There's been a lot of turnover since 1991. Secondly, that's the letter of the notice of investigation, I would almost be willing to bet it ended up there as the end result of a estate. As for the train symbol, that would be right for that time period, We're talking 18 years ago, as best as I recall, the symbol D1 means Decatur and 1 symbolizes which day of the week it originated, IIRC. I don't think that it symbolized line segment, like it does today.
Well, I do think to some extent on this one it was good to be picky. I just spaced it, and never thought about not putting the names on here. I defanatally wouldn't want something like that with my name on it on the internet. Also, thanks to all for the helpfull info.
Was, and is, that a Lafayette IN. crew that switches out the Staley plants in Lafayette? Or is it a Decatur Ill. crew. maby a Peru IN. crew.
wabash1, I will keep it, and that rcomendation in mind!
I had some of the same concerns as edblysard and wabash1, so I'm glad Justin deleted those names - although, wabash1's point about people on the railroad not forgetting and things coming back to haunt them 20 years later was pretty funny. It's a good story to be able to tell 'newbies' to keep their minds on their work and keep them in line.
I too thought that it was appropriate that Justin would acquire and become aware of such a letter - as some of you know, his ambition in life is to become a locomotive engineer. Now he knows what can happen when someone screws up.
However, I suggest that Justin go back and add back in the positions for each - Conductor, Engineer, and 3 Brakemen, as applicable. That way it will still serve as a good example and historical record without identifying and embarrassing anyone.
And with regard to that - why 3 brakemen on this train or switcher [Q] By 1991 Indiana's 'full-crew' law had been repealed, I thought - was there something about this assignment that necessitated or justified 3 'brakies' [Q] Might that have been the cause of the incident here - too many crewmen to keep track of and coordinate, and somebody got mixed up and made a mistake [Q] According to the letter, it happened at about 8;50 AM on Jan. 30th, so darkness was not a factor - but impaired visibility due to snow might have been. Just wondering, that's all.
- Paul North.
Paul_D_North_Jr Might that have been the cause of the incident here - too many crewmen to keep track of and coordinate, and somebody got mixed up and made a mistake [Q] According to the letter, it happened at about 8;50 AM on Jan. 30th, so darkness was not a factor - but impaired visibility due to snow might have been. Just wondering, that's all. - Paul North.
Might that have been the cause of the incident here - too many crewmen to keep track of and coordinate, and somebody got mixed up and made a mistake [Q] According to the letter, it happened at about 8;50 AM on Jan. 30th, so darkness was not a factor - but impaired visibility due to snow might have been. Just wondering, that's all.
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Thanks for the compalments Paul.
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