In the first photo a 1000 series car is more likely running backward from downtown to the carbarn south of Allentown. I believe it will make a left turn in about one block from the photo location.
Regarding the 1st linked photo:
- The camera is likely looking south - the hill is the background is known locally as South Mountain. That would make this the northern end of the Eighth Street Bridge. If the camera had been facing north instead, the PP&L skyscraper at 9th & Hamilton Sts. would be dominating the skyline to the left of the bridge, but it's not there.
- The clincher here is the sidewalk. This bridge is odd in that it does not have equal or symmetrical sidewalks on both sides - practically, there isn't any on the west side, just a narrow ledge that's only wide enough to support the concrete posts that were used to support the trolley wires and streetlights (and sadly enough, a lot of suicides in recent years). The sidewalk in the photo on the left, which is consistent with the east side if the camera were looking south. This configuration can still be seen if you look at any of the on-line aerial photo applications that are detailed enough for that.
- The street to the left is most likely W. Union St. (on the right beyond the photo, the short street to the continuation of W. Union St. is now known as Jackson St.). Union St. is significant enough to probably have supported a trolley track, as in the one to the left here. In contrast, the equivalent street on the south side of the bridge - Harrison St. - probably did not. A detailed track map - or one of the historic aerial photos that I referenced in one of my previous posts - would help resolve this, of course.
- The parking lot on the left side of the photo is still a parking lot.
- The houses on the right side of the photo are now a high-rise housing project.
- The carbarn was in the block at S. 12th & W. Wyoming Sts., where the LANTA bus garage is now, west of the baseball field. To get there, the trolleys likely continued south off the bridge for another 1 block to Lehigh St., then a half-right turn to continue SW on Lehigh St. for 4+ blocks to it. Again, I'd like to see a track map to confirm this.
- I believe the trolley is coming towards the camera = northbound, into center Allentown, which would be normal "right-hand running". Otherwise, the trolley would be "left-hand running", and the driver of the car in the background is going to have to make a quick decision on where to go instead in a few seconds, which doesn't make sense for a busy road like this.
- The near pole of the trolley appears to be down. The far = trailing pole is too faint to be seen, but the trolley itself = the slider at the top of the trolley pole appears to be one of the 2 small blobs or specks in the middle distance at about the same height as the trolley "ears" or "pull-off" hangers and wires, if you project their horizontal plane back that far.
Regarding the 3rd linked photo: This one is going to be tougher. The track configuration in the foreground will help. Also, note what appears to be a crossing flasher at the left edge of the photo, despite the insignificant appearance of the street - almost a dirt road ? Also, the evidently artificial or planned layout of the evergreen trees inside the fence to the left is unusual. The absence of anything in the upper background - hills or buildings - is puzzling. Soewhere I have an old issue (5 - 10 years ago) of the Flags Diamonds & Statues magazine/ newsletter by the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society that had detailed track maps of South Allentown. If I can find and compare it, that too may help us. Otherwise, I'd again look to those historical aerial photos for a similar configuration from above.
Hope this is helpful.
- Paul North.
Thanks so much for noticing the trolley was running the other way, guys. I've changed the caption not just for that, but to also add some of the other great information provided (and am going to go back now and add the stuff about the carbarn).
I hope Dave and Quentin find this thread (wish I'd not started a second one).
Quentin, if you do find this thread, what is that first car in the parking lot?
The first of this last group of photographs definitely shows car 1030, the ex-Indiana Railroad highspeed, which had a slightly different rear end than the ex-C&LE cars, more rounded, but then was somewhat squared off in rebuilding and installation of the rear emergency exit. Note the plated over pocket for the rear my Tomlinson coupler, which was not needed on LVT. This plated-over pocket could only be seen on 1030. And it is running northbound on return from the carbarn, with the rear pole lowered and the front pole taking power. On most trips, the single end 1000's made a backup move to the carban and back.
The second photo is of a double-truck Birney, possibly Brill built, or Osgood Bradley,. If the latter, it might be second hand from Providence, RI. Both Richmond, VA, and Washington, DC had similar second-hand cars. I rode a car like this once on the Northampton line. Also, the 900's, from the erlier posting, the city-suburban car, was the mainstay of the Mincie Trail line, the main line between Allentown and Bethlehem. Eason Limited cars also used that track without making discharge stops outbound and receive stops inbound.
The third photo is of a Lehigh Valley RR train. The identificaton is possible because of the heavyweight with railroad roof and skirts added for an attempt at semi-streamlining. The other railroads that added skirts to heavyweights also modified the roof. The LVRR was unique in this respsect.
You might try to get TRAINS to zerox the article of LVT's Liberty Bell line in the January 1951 issue, written by Ed Blossom. Or contact me at daveklepper@yahoo.com and I will try to get you a copy.
I hate to do this after thoroughly missing the configuration of the bridge at Allentown, but I have to offer the opinion that the car moving in reverse is not 1030 but one of the ex-C&LE cars. I was trying to find a rear view of 1030, since it's preserved in its LVT colors and interior configuration (beautiful car inside and out!!!) but was not successful. Nonetheless, 1030 had a distinctive rounded end as noted above, but it was not much revised when rebuilt by LVT as far as overall contour is concerned The rear door did little to change the curve of the rear body sheets and glass. The C&LE cars had an equally distinctive flat rear, and this clearly shows on the car backing over the bridge. It's really not 1030; it was much prettier, even from the back!
Erie Lackawanna Quentin, if you do find this thread, what is that first car in the parking lot?
Sorry Charles....I just noticed your comment now on Sunday night.....I have looked at that photo several times and really can't be sure on the first one. Without looking up pic's to compare {so far}, I lean to either a Dodge or Buick. Rather sure the 2nd one is a Packard....roughly a '36 model.
Quentin
Fenton, you may be correct and I may be in error. Apparently, then, not all the ex-C&LE 1000's were rebuilt exactly the same way, because there are differences between this car's rear end and other 1000's. Or perhaps modifications, other than the rear door, were made during the years.
Also, I see that I may be in error because the skirt where I think I see a coupler pocket covered over just didn't exist at the rear of the Indiana High Speeds. After checking, I find there was just the exposed couipler, free to swing to either side, with no rear skirt.
The C&LE cars never had couplers, just tow-bar hardware like most city streetcars. And this was also true on LVT. 812 and the steel drop-center cars did have couplers and mu equipment. 812 could mu with the heavy steel cars.
Another error, I was 17, not 15, at the time of the 1949 fan trip. You Dad may have gone to Quakertown and back on regular cars and just been at the station at the time the fantrip showed up. Charlie was on the trip, serving as motorman for at least part of the time. But in 1949, 812 was not used in regular wervice. If one of the 1000's could not be used, a former center door car rebuilt into and end door car, was the usual substitute.
Charles....it's a day or two later now and just compared the {first car} in your photo to a '37 Dodge photo....and I find a rather close comparison. So...believe I'll hang my hat on that suggestion.
Very cool! Thanks, Quentin.
Okay, I finally got to the last four images, which include two of my favorite. I also found a contact sheet of all of the images that I made in 1975. This was great and terrible. Great because it told me the order the images were taken in... and terrible because I realized that I had the negatives in my hand at one point... and now I have no idea what I did with them. I'd have much better images if I still had those negatives.
Enough of that though
Image one is of Brill "Master Unit" #953 in local service passing the Americus Hotel on 5th and Hamilton in Allentown.
http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503419
Second image is of the Cincinnati lightweight from the second set of images (the one at 8th and Hamilton) passing the Brill Master Unit in from of the post office.
http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503420
Third image is the same car seconds later, and although it's hard to see in the scan, in the print you can clearly see the number of this car is #1020.
http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503421
That's it for the good images. This last one is only for clicking on for the super curious (it's really quite awful, bad quality and the subject is blocked). I am sharing it only for those fans of the LVT who are curious about what the line looked like coming off the 8th Street bridge, as this is the matching shot to the shot of the car coming off the 8th street bridge that I posted a couple days ago.
http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503418
Any additional information would be more than welcome.
Kind regards,
Charles Freericks
And you know from previous comments that the car in last photo is moving away from you, even though you see the front of the car, on its reverse move from the car house to 8th and Hamilton and the crossover located there.
Charles - Some addt'l. info & corrections are below, which I hope you'll appreciate. Thanks again for sharing these !
Erie Lackawanna [snip] Image one is of Brill "Master Unit" #953 in local service passing the Americus Hotel on 5th and Hamilton in Allentown. Right location, but contrary to the caption - No, you can't still book a room at the Americus. It is still standing, but it was condemned as unsafe by the City of Allentown a few years ago and all tenants and businesses evicted - it now has safety scaffolding all around it to protect people on the sidewalks from falling debris. It's been the subject of a long-running battle between the City and the hotel's owner, Mark Mendelson (sp ?), who's now an involuntary and "complimentary" guest at one of Uncle Sam's "Iron Bar Inn" chain of hotels, courtesy of the U.S. Attorney's office for conspiracy to defraud a bank in the auction sale of a foreclosed property in the King of Prussia area a few years ago. Yes, there is justice, but as the saying goes, the wheels of justice do grind slowly, as well as finely. Lots of articles about all this if you want to search for them - www.mcall.com is website for the local newspaper - The Morning Call - they charge for archived articles, though. http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503419 Second image is of the Cincinnati lightweight from the second set of images (the one at 8th and Hamilton) passing the Brill Master Unit in from of the post office. Definitely not the U.S. Post Office, which is on the south side of Hamilton St. in the westerly half of the block between S. 5th and S. 4th Sts. (not sure of the name of the alley in the middle of the block there, but that doesn't matter here) - and is "set back" much farther from the curb line, and has a much more imposing facade. If you look closely, I think the lettering over the doorway says "TICKET OFFICE" - the first few letters of TICKET appear to be run together. Also, the vertical sign to the right says "DEPOT", and at the bottom is a Liberty Bell symbol or logo. I'd conclude that this was one of the LVT's Allentown station stops, probably in the same area - maybe even on one side of the Americus (see above) - but I'd want to look into that more or see what someone else (such as Dave Klepper) has to say on this. http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503420 Third image is the same car seconds later, and although it's hard to see in the scan, in the print you can clearly see the number of this car is #1020. http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503421 That's it for the good images. This last one is only for clicking on for the super curious (it's really quite awful, bad quality and the subject is blocked). I am sharing it only for those fans of the LVT who are curious about what the line looked like coming off the 8th Street bridge, as this is the matching shot to the shot of the car coming off the 8th street bridge that I posted a couple days ago. Very minor nit-pick with the caption: It should be "Fairview carbarn", not "Farview carhouse". http://knox.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1503418 Any additional information would be more than welcome. Kind regards, Charles Freericks
Right location, but contrary to the caption - No, you can't still book a room at the Americus. It is still standing, but it was condemned as unsafe by the City of Allentown a few years ago and all tenants and businesses evicted - it now has safety scaffolding all around it to protect people on the sidewalks from falling debris. It's been the subject of a long-running battle between the City and the hotel's owner, Mark Mendelson (sp ?), who's now an involuntary and "complimentary" guest at one of Uncle Sam's "Iron Bar Inn" chain of hotels, courtesy of the U.S. Attorney's office for conspiracy to defraud a bank in the auction sale of a foreclosed property in the King of Prussia area a few years ago. Yes, there is justice, but as the saying goes, the wheels of justice do grind slowly, as well as finely. Lots of articles about all this if you want to search for them - www.mcall.com is website for the local newspaper - The Morning Call - they charge for archived articles, though.
Definitely not the U.S. Post Office, which is on the south side of Hamilton St. in the westerly half of the block between S. 5th and S. 4th Sts. (not sure of the name of the alley in the middle of the block there, but that doesn't matter here) - and is "set back" much farther from the curb line, and has a much more imposing facade. If you look closely, I think the lettering over the doorway says "TICKET OFFICE" - the first few letters of TICKET appear to be run together. Also, the vertical sign to the right says "DEPOT", and at the bottom is a Liberty Bell symbol or logo. I'd conclude that this was one of the LVT's Allentown station stops, probably in the same area - maybe even on one side of the Americus (see above) - but I'd want to look into that more or see what someone else (such as Dave Klepper) has to say on this.
Very minor nit-pick with the caption: It should be "Fairview carbarn", not "Farview carhouse".
Paul -- I very much do appereciate the corrections!!! Yes. Thank you for them. And if you see others, please let me know.
CF
daveklepper And you know from previous comments that the car in last photo is moving away from you, even though you see the front of the car, on its reverse move from the car house to 8th and Hamilton and the crossover located there.
Yes, I'm going to clean up the captions later today, and I'll make sure that's clear. Thanks.
Okay - I have updated all of the captions - and I believe I've gotten everything right.
Did want to highlight, which I don't think I did, that this is the best shot my dad took.
Funny thing is, if you go on ebay right now, there are like a dozen images for sale there of a million times better quality... half of them from someone who is selling their dad's shots (the negatives, no less). Not to criticize someone else, but knowing how much my dad loved the LVT and how much he loved his lousy shots of it, I could never part with his images. If he had taken crystal clear shots like that... wow...
Sorry... I just had to say something, having seen those beautiful images for sale. It broke it my heart.
Charles -
True enough - but far, far better that those irreplaceable images be sold to someone who will appreciate them, than what I fear is the usual disposition - the garbage can.
Paul,
You know, you bring up a very goood point!!!
Charles
Paul_D_North_Jr Charles - True enough - but far, far better that those irreplaceable images be sold to someone who will appreciate them, than what I fear is the usual disposition - the garbage can. - Paul North.
My aunts, while cleaning out their cottage on the lake, went through the pictures they had amassed over the years and threw out any in which they didn't recognize poeple or places.
There probably weren't any of railroad interest, but I'm sure there were some of family landmarks, etc.
Grrrrrrr.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Nowhere near as bad... but frustrating nonetheless, in going through my grandmother's photographs (no, she wasn't a railfan)... she wrote on the back of most of them, but didn't put the information I needed.
For example... there's a picture of my grandmother as a young woman on a horse, and behind her there are two other young women, and a large house and trees and a lake... what I would want to know is the following information
1) Year
2) Location
3) Who the other people are
I turn over the photo and it says "Mama on a horse."
There's, a picture of her dad and three women... maybe I'll finally find out what my grandmother's aunts' names were, right...
I turn over the photo and it says "Mama's papa and his sisters with a friend."
I don't even know which one is the non family member. Oh well.
Two weekends ago was my father-in-law's 90th birthday. One of the more interesting activities that afternoon was labeling all the old photos - as CF suggests - that were brought by the relatives, friends, former neighbors, Army Air Corps buddies, etc. Not all of the blanks were filled in, but a lot were, and that was likely the last opportunity to do so with many of them. It also served as a real conversational "ice-breaker" to start and continue the reminiscing about who was who, where, doing what, before and after, what happened to them, and so on. Would recommend it - sure beat the typical recounting of ailments and illnesses, etc. that usually occur at such gatherings.
What a great idea, Paul. Did something similar with a cousin of my grandfather's a few years ago. She was visiting from Austria (we're not Austrian, she just happened to settle there). Anyway, she was over the house and I pulled out a box of pictures. We must have made it through a couple hundred. It was amazing how much she indentified for me (different branch than the grandmother with the generalized info on the back of the pictures though).
I would to know more.
Crane Iron
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