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[quote user="vsmith"][quote user="Bucyrus"][quote user="vsmith"] Bucyrus, please reread my statement, I never anywhere said fuel economy had not changed, I said the basic design of the truck has not changed since the 1930's, and this is true,... [/quote]I did go back and read what you said in your original post, and you said the following, among other things:"...some car manufacturers read the writing and began producing hybrids and other higher fuel efficiency models, now I have to ask:Why haven't truck manufacturers done the same? Seams like there still making the the same metal bricks Smokey chased the Bandit around in 30 years ago?So is it that the truck manufacturers are just collectivley too thick to get it? I havent seen any significant advance in diesel trucks since the widespread adoption of turbochargers, even those mostly boost HP not necessarily economy, the basic design and construction of the semi-tractor hasnt really changed since the 1930's...you'd of thought someone, somewhere would be thinking, "Hey maybe we should begin research into designing more fuel efficient trucks"? Guess not. Too hard to think outside the metal box?Maybe its time for more aerodynamic trucks, better engines, and smaller local delivery trucks, Biodiesel? Hybrid truck engines? time to start thinking outside the same old same old....someone enlightne me?" Considering what you said, it does not seem to me that I mischaracterized your statements when I replied to your post by saying: "Moreover, I speculate that it is highly inaccurate to say that truck fuel efficiency design has not changed since 1930."  Your whole point concerning design seems to be about fuel efficiency.In the above post where you say you are talking about basic design, not fuel efficiency, you show examples to prove your point, and mention that trucks still are shaped like bricks.  But it seems to me that in the terms of design that you say is not changing, you could say the same for diesel locomotives, or steam for that matter.  If the engine of trucks has been in front for the last 60 years, maybe that's the best place for it.  Why change it?  And then you continue your theme of trucks failing to evolve in design by again connecting it to how it affects fuel economy as you mention the difficulty of reducing the wind resistance on a brick.I am not sure what you mean when you said this:"Of course their have been improvements in almost every single aspect of the internals since the 1930s, fuel injection, electronic, turbo-charging, I'm well aware of that. My contention is that while automobiles have changed significantly, even diesel locomotive technology has changed radically since the 1960's we haven't seen similar rate of progress in the semi truck universe."If trucks have been internally improved in every single aspect, what lack of progress are you referring to?[/quote]Not trying to pick a fight with ya, just to be clear[;)] While there have been component improvements, there just that, improvements, the basics remain fundimentaly the same. The basic underlaying fundementals have remained unchanged for decades. It would be as if every sedan rolling out of Detroit still had ladder frames and bias ply tires. Agreed, the basic layout IS a logical one, and has worked for for the last 60 years and will likely continue for the next 60 years, however, the semi-truck tractor AS IS in its current fuel hungry condition, is doomed if the manufacturers cannot find some way to radically increase fuel efficiency. Thats why I asked about alternative technologies like Hybrids. Even just a shift from say 6mpg to 9mpg would be a improvement. I just havent seen any such major evolution or even the beginnings of any move to improving the species as has occured in the auto industry. The aurgument is that the truck is what it is, and it will get continue to be what it is regardless of how the universe changes. Its the universe that must change, not the truck. We'll heres a universe changing thought, diesel costs an arm and a leg, and will for all intents and purposes continue to cost an arm and a leg, just as there no Blue Fairy to grant Pinnochios wish to become a little boy, and theres no Blue Fairy going to lower diesel prices back to $2.50 a gallon, not with demand where it is these days. The industry is going to have to deal with this new reality one way or the other.Is anyone considering that we might have to move to lowering vehicle loads or smaller truck sizes to increase milage? Anyone considered studying how to reduce aerodynamic drag on tractors AND trailers to increase milage? Has there been any serious look or testing into using biodiesel in semi-tractors. If there was I havent heard of it, so thats why I'm asking these questions.Its 2008 but the industry is still living in 1968, no, it more like 1973, and the Arabs have just begun the embargo and everyone is starting to freak, only this time its the marketplace thats creating a defacto embargo, and you cant talk or bomb the marketplace into submission. Maybe the Guv'ment can lower prices, but only a little.Your the trucker, to me that makes you the expert here, you tell me where you think the improvements could be made, and how are things going to look like when diesel hits and stays at $8-9 a gallon? Thats probably only a decade away, if not sooner. [/quote]I am not a trucker, and I don't exactly know what they could do to increase fuel efficiency.  Maybe there are potential gains still to be had by reducing weight by the use of more expensive materials.  It is possible that such measures have not been considered worth the investment when fuel was priced lower, but might become worth it as the fuel price rises.  That is the one silver lining to the dark cloud of rising energy prices; it intensifies research into alternatives because it raises the reward for finding alternatives.I agree that the price is likely to continue upward to undreamed of heights.  Nevertheless, trucking and other commercial transportation will have to continue on.  Then end user is just going to have to pay for the increase, although they do have the option to cut down on the consumption of a wide variety of things.  Here is a link to an article about using biodiesel in the trucking industry.  It says that biodiesel costs more than diesel, but it is "greener."  Therefore if a company feels a commitment to meet a green quotient, biodiesel can help them.  It is possible that if you use trucks in support of a retail business, for instance, you could attract more business from your customers if they feel good about your green effort, even though you need to charge them more because of it.    <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/19/BU63UHSMM.DTL">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/19/BU63UHSMM.DTL</a>
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