Who sets up the order of the units of motive power consist? Since may of the crews have to deal with weather and climate conditions for the duration of their trips I sure they'd like to have the units with the best heating/ac capabilities as well as ride on the point. But do they have to take the power consits they are given and lump it? Could make for a miserable work day.
If a unit is bad ordered during a trip who makes the decision or has the authority to cut it out or remove it from the consist?
Who decides whether all of the lead units are configured nose to tail or whether the last unit is reversed? or otherwise configured. What is the criteria for that decision?
Who cuts out the DPU units when the train reaches it's destination and is yarded? Who cuts them inand how do they know where they should be placed?
This may change with the increasing use of run-throughs, but among engines of approximately equal strength, condition (and content--cab signalling for example) would the operating railroad tend to put its own engine up front so that the foreign stuff -- EMD or another line -- is not that prominent? I mean, in a partly-foreign consist, would the responsible person tend to deliberately switch the home-road's engine to the front, even if it's a little extra trouble? (I take no position on this personally).
At Rochelle I often see a lot of multi-unit UP running with a gleaming cab on point but the ones behind are "dirty diesels." Is the reason to put the pride upfront, or could there be other reasons (I notice that if any of the motive power is six-axled, it will include the one on point). I guess that could be due to the unit's relative youth in terms of its not being able to get absolutely filthy yet, or perhaps that six-axled has a higher level of running technology. Or that the engine with the most traction and hp's belongs on front for distribution-of-power reasons, or simply that the biggest newest engines get first priority on a bath?
Does anyone with UP in particular know how these decisons are made and whether there's one dominant factor as to how to head up a train, or is it more of a considered decision based on some of the other factors I've mentioned, which may or may not be relevant--I just don't know.
Cheers! - al
Where cab signals are required, most likely it will have to be a home road unit on the point. For awhile some years back there were some leased units, from GECX IIRC that UP eventually acquired and repainted, that could lead because they had CCS/ATC for UP lines.
I've seen consists where just as likely where the lead unit wasn't the cleanest looking or most comfortable for the crew. One hot summer night coming into Fremont, a train ahead had changed out crews. The lead engine was a standard cab GE without air conditioning. There was a wide nose unit with cab signals and air conditioning facing the correct way third out in the consist. The crew asked for permission to rearrange the consist to get the one with A/C in the lead. The dispatcher said no, to take it like it was. This was about the time that West Nile virus and mosquitos was first becoming a concern. The crew said the non-A/C engine was unsafe because they would have to leave the windows open. The dispatcher about blew up at this. They went back and forth over the radio for about 5 minutes before the crew finally agreed to take the train as is, but not before they were given a phone number to call and explain why the lead engine was unsafe.
Jeff
jeffhergert wrote: One hot summer night coming into Fremont, a train ahead had changed out crews. The lead engine was a standard cab GE without air conditioning. There was a wide nose unit with cab signals and air conditioning facing the correct way third out in the consist. The crew asked for permission to rearrange the consist to get the one with A/C in the lead. The dispatcher said no, to take it like it was. This was about the time that West Nile virus and mosquitos was first becoming a concern. The crew said the non-A/C engine was unsafe because they would have to leave the windows open. The dispatcher about blew up at this. They went back and forth over the radio for about 5 minutes before the crew finally agreed to take the train as is, but not before they were given a phone number to call and explain why the lead engine was unsafe. Jeff
One hot summer night coming into Fremont, a train ahead had changed out crews. The lead engine was a standard cab GE without air conditioning. There was a wide nose unit with cab signals and air conditioning facing the correct way third out in the consist. The crew asked for permission to rearrange the consist to get the one with A/C in the lead. The dispatcher said no, to take it like it was. This was about the time that West Nile virus and mosquitos was first becoming a concern. The crew said the non-A/C engine was unsafe because they would have to leave the windows open. The dispatcher about blew up at this. They went back and forth over the radio for about 5 minutes before the crew finally agreed to take the train as is, but not before they were given a phone number to call and explain why the lead engine was unsafe.
You can bet that if some official (or a dispatcher on a territory-familiarization trip) was going to be riding that train, the dispatcher would reconsider.
Although, to be fair, we do not know how many trains were behind this one, nor how much the move would have tied up the yard.
Power is assigned by the power desk in Fort Worth by my railroad.
Rodney
I think the basics work like this. The yardmaster, who is responsible for making up trains, gives the local Mechanical Department manager key train information such as tonnage and ETD. It is then up to the Mechanical Department forces to have a serviced engine consist ready to go for the train. No doubt there are some standing orders for things like yard engine, locals and road trains with fairly regular departure times.
The specific configuration of an engine consist is left to the mechanical forces, but they are responsible for making sure that the engine consist is properly configured and sized to meet the requirements for the job. For example, if the away from home end point for a local train has no track for turning an engine, the local will be assigned two units configured back to back even if the horsepower for the engines is much more than necessary to handle the tonnage on the train.
Generally, train crews cannot reconfigure an engine consist without authority from the manager-trainmaster, roadmaster-covering the piece of railroad where the change is to happen.
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al-in-chgo wrote: This may change with the increasing use of run-throughs, but among engines of approximately equal strength, condition (and content--cab signalling for example) would the operating railroad tend to put its own engine up front so that the foreign stuff -- EMD or another line -- is not that prominent?
This may change with the increasing use of run-throughs, but among engines of approximately equal strength, condition (and content--cab signalling for example) would the operating railroad tend to put its own engine up front so that the foreign stuff -- EMD or another line -- is not that prominent?
I've seen Union Pacific trains in SE Arizona with Ferromex, CSX, Norfolk Southern, Canadian Pacific, Canadian National, Illinois Central, and all manner of foreign road engines in the lead, going both east and westbound between Tucson, Arizona and Lordsburg, New Mexico, which are the crew change and service points. The yardmasters in those two locations apparently assign locomotives based on availability without regard to ownership.
The problem with changing out a leader on the line of road is the marker (aka EOT, aka FRED). The marker is almost always just armed up to the leader. To change out that leader, you have to have a way to get to the rear of the train to arm up the marker again (and give it a dump test). Takes time and trackspace.
As far as chossing power... around here you have the TMs that assign power, YMs that scrounge for power, tradition that dictates it (36Q power always turns on the 37Q, etc) or sometimes your destination yard may need some power so you get to take it... no real formal process. Kind of like a circus without the peanuts.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
I have heard radio chatter to the effect of either the crew or the yard manager (I assume) asking if the engines could be turned on the wye to get a certain engine in (or out of) the lead.
Sometimes there is an explanation that the cab of a certain unit is better (or worse) than the other unit, and sometimes there are no words as to why, just that the engines "need", or someone "wants" them, to be swapped.
I remember one time hearing someone say, "You don't wanna even go IN that cab! It is BAAAAD in there!" Then there were chuckles from several others in the radio converation. Left me wondering just what was wrong!
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper Vaporo wrote:I remember one time hearing someone say, "You don't wanna even go IN that cab! It is BAAAAD in there!" Then there were chuckles from several others in the radio converation. Left me wondering just what was wrong!
FOP. (full of poo)
or, my favorite: "could gag a maggot!" And yes, thatis a very common reason to spin or shuffle power.
Semper Vaporo wrote: I remember one time hearing someone say, "You don't wanna even go IN that cab! It is BAAAAD in there!" Then there were chuckles from several others in the radio converation. Left me wondering just what was wrong!
Your quote causes me to think about FEC GP40-2 #444. According to the crews it has a very stinky toilet. Every time I've seen it in person it has been in trail service, although, at times it is put in the lead.
I know one engineer who absolutely hates it because of that problem.
Ted M.
got trains?™
See my photos at: http://tedmarshall.rrpicturearchives.net/
zugmann wrote: Kind of like a circus without the peanuts.
Kind of like a circus without the peanuts.
Ha ha... That's a good one.
I shouldn't have replied to this thread.
About 2 horus after replying I got called for my usual train. At our briefing, the TM tells us "you'll have to spin your power as the leader has a full toilet - and it's broken" Nice. Unfortunately the location we got the train has no facilities to turn power. So after making sure the marker was armed to both engines, we had to run with the Stinky70M in the lead for 40 miles. At least those EMDs have nice big windows to open.
A little off topic but what actually determines the direction that a locomotive would go in a multi-unit configuation? Is it a switch in the cab or part of the cable connections?
Could two locomotives accidentally be set to go in opposite directions?
Never done, but could you operate the set of locomotives from the second or third unit in an emergency?
Pins 6 &7 are reversed in the 27 point connector to allow forward and backwards to be designated. L&N hiwtorical society had an article on how all the 27 points are used. BTW not all connectors are presently used. Also any unit could control the consist.
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