Trains.com

Yellow over red (sign not signal)

7726 views
9 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Yellow over red (sign not signal)
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 11:41 AM

     I saw an unfamiliar sign today at a grade crossing: a reflective rectangle about 15"X30".  The top half was yellow, the bottom half was red.  It had a thin, black border around the edge, and was next to the balast, about 100' from the crossing.

     Can anybody tell me what it means?

     Thanks.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,014 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 11:44 AM
Which railroad?

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    June 2004
  • From: Over yonder by the roundhouse
  • 1,224 posts
Posted by route_rock on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 11:44 AM
 A warning for train crews. Its giving you advance warning for a Form B restrcition. MOW puts them out 2 miles from a red flag which begins the work limits.

Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 11:52 AM

 route_rock wrote:
 A warning for train crews. Its giving you advance warning for a Form B restrcition. MOW puts them out 2 miles from a red flag which begins the work limits.

BNSF

Is it a notice that the train should begin slowing at that point, to be ready for what's up ahead?  I may have to drive a couple miles further up, to see what's goin on.Wink [;)]  The track parallels the street.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: MP 175.1 CN Neenah Sub
  • 4,917 posts
Posted by CNW 6000 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 12:12 PM

 route_rock wrote:
 A warning for train crews. Its giving you advance warning for a Form B restrcition. MOW puts them out 2 miles from a red flag which begins the work limits.

Beat me to it.  CN uses them around here but there square insteaf of a triangle.

Dan

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • 40 posts
Posted by CPRguy on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 1:26 PM

 route_rock wrote:
 A warning for train crews. Its giving you advance warning for a Form B restrcition. MOW puts them out 2 miles from a red flag which begins the work limits.

 This man is right!  The BNSF uses that flag.  On the CPR we use a yellow board with a red strip going from corner to corner.

 

  • Member since
    March 2002
  • 9,265 posts
Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 2:24 PM

Murphy,

From the GCOR...

5.4 Flags for Temporary Track Conditions

5.4.1 Temporary Restrictions

Track bulletins, track warrants, or general orders may restrict or stop train movements because of track conditions, structures, men, or equipment working. Yellow flags will be used for temporary speed restrictions. Yellow-red flags will be used when a train may be required to stop.

5.4.2 Display of Yellow Flag

A. Restriction Specified in Writing

Two Miles Ahead of Restricted Area. Yellow flags warn trains to restrict movement because of track conditions or structures. To make sure train movement is restricted at the right location, employees must display a yellow flag 2 miles before the restricted area

Less than Two Miles Ahead of Restricted Area. When the restricted area is close to a terminal, junction, or another area, employees will display the yellow flag less than 2 miles before the restricted area. This information will also be included in the track bulletin, track warrant, or general order.

Once the Train Reaches the Restricted Area. The speed specified by track warrant, track bulletin, or general order must not be exceeded until the rear of the train clears the restricted area.

B. Restriction Is Not Specified in Writing

When a yellow flag is displayed and the restriction is not specified by a track bulletin, track warrant, or general order, once the train is 2 miles beyond the yellow flag, crew members must:

  • 1. Continue moving the train but at a speed not exceeding 10 MPH.
  • 2. Resume speed only after the rear of the train has:

a. Passed a green flag.

 

or

b. Traveled 4 miles beyond the yellow flag and the train dispatcher has verified that no track bulletin or track warrant is in effect specifying a temporary speed restriction at that location.

 

5.4.3 Display of Yellow-Red Flag

A. Restriction Specified in Writing

Two Miles Ahead of Restricted Area. Yellow-red flags warn a train to be prepared to stop because of men or equipment. To make sure the train is prepared to Stop at the right location, employees must display a yellow-red flag 2 miles before the restricted area.

Less Than Two Miles Ahead of Restricted Area. When the restricted area is close to a terminal, junction, or another area, employees will display the yellow-red flag less than 2 miles before the restricted area. This information will also be included in the track bulletin, track warrant, or general order.

B. Restriction Is Not Specified in Writing

When a yellow-red flag is displayed and the restriction is not specified by a track bulletin, track warrant, or general order, crew members must be prepared to stop short of a red flag 2 miles beyond the yellow-red flag. If a red flag is displayed, proceed as outlined in Rule 5.4.7 (Display of Red Flag or Red Light). If no red flag is displayed:

  • 1. Move at restricted speed.
  • 2. Increase speed only after:

a. A crew member has received permission from the employee in charge.

b. The rear of the train has passed a green flag.

 

or

c. The rear of the train has traveled 4 miles beyond the yellow-red flag, and the train dispatcher has verified that no track bulletin or track warrant protecting men or equipment is in effect at that locafion.

5.4.4 Authorized Protection by Yellow or Yellow-Red Flag

On subdivisions where maximum speed does not exceed 40 MPH, and it is authorized by special instructions, yellow or yellow-red flags may be displayed without the use of track bulletins, track warrants, or flagmen. Yellow or yellow-red flags must be displayed 2 miles before the restricted area. Protection will begin at a point 2 miles beyond the yellow or yellow-red flag and continue for 2 more miles, as outlined in Rule 5.4.2 (Display of Yellow Flag) and Rule 5.4.3 (Display of Yellow-Red Flag).

Note: Crew members do not need to receive verification from the train dispatcher when this rule is in effect.

 

5.4.5 Display of Green Flag

A green flag indicates the end of a restricted area. If a series of locations require reduced speeds or protection for men or equipment, the green flags could overlap yellow or yellow-red flags. When this is the case, employees must:

  • Place a yellow or yellow-red flag for each restricted area.
  • Place a green flag only at the end of the last restricted area.

 

5.4.6 Display of Flags Within Current of Traffic

A. Yellow and Green Flags

Flags for temporary speed restrictions will only be placed for trains moving with the current of traffic.

B. Yellow-Red and Green Flags

Flags protecting men or equipment must be placed in both directions on each track affected.

 

5.4.7 Display of Red Flag or Red Light

A red flag or red light is displayed where trains must stop. When approaching a red flag or red light, the train must stop short of the red flag or red light and not proceed unless the employee in charge gives verbal permission. If permission to proceed is received before the train stops, the train may pass the red flag or red light without stopping.

If track bulletin Form B is not in effect, permission must include speed and distance. This speed must not be exceeded until the rear of the train has passed the specified distance from the red flag or red light, unless otherwise instructed by the employee in charge.

Displayed Between Rails. When a red flag or red light is displayed between the rails of a track other than a main track or controlled siding, the train must stop and not proceed until the flag or light has been removed by an employee of the class that placed it.

5.4.8 Flag Location

Flags will be displayed only on the track affected. However, when yellow, yellow-red, or red flags or red lights are used for protection without a flagman, track bullefin, track warrant, or general order, these flags must be placed to protect all possible access to the restricted area.

Flags must be displayed to the right of the track as viewed from an approaching train, except red flags or red lights may be displayed between the rails as outlined in Rule 5.4.7 (Display of Red Flag or Red Light). Flags will be placed in this manner unless otherwise specified by track bulletin, track warrant, special instructions, or general order.

When flags are displayed beyond the first rail of an adjacent track, the flags will not apply to the track on which the train is moving.

23 17 46 11

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,014 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 2:37 PM
 CPRguy wrote:
 route_rock wrote:
 A warning for train crews. Its giving you advance warning for a Form B restrcition. MOW puts them out 2 miles from a red flag which begins the work limits.
 This man is right!  The BNSF uses that flag.  On the CPR we use a yellow board with a red strip going from corner to corner.

As does CSX. 

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • 166 posts
Posted by Cris_261 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 3:51 PM
UP uses something similar to give train crews an advance warning of a MOW speed restriction: a square-shaped yellow sign with two red triangles touching tips in an "hourglass" formation.
From here to there, and back again.
  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Burnaby
  • 525 posts
Posted by enr2099 on Tuesday, October 7, 2008 8:02 PM
 CNW 6000 wrote:

 CN uses them around here but there square insteaf of a triangle.

 

CROR Rule 42 Planned Protection(Rule 842 for MOW)

 

(a) A movement in possession of the Form Y must not proceed beyond the red signal located at the mileage stated in the GBO, enter the track limits stated in the GBO, or make a reverse movement within such track limits until instructions have been received from the foreman named in the GBO. When a specific track is to be used, instructions from the foreman must specify the track upon which the instructions apply.

CROR Rule 842(a) When protection is required, the request must be in writing and on the prescribed form. When protection has been provided, the track and time limits must be confirmed in writing prior to the foreman named in the GBO arranging for the display of the prescribed flags as follows;

  1. place a yellow over red flag at least two miles outside the track limits defined by the red flags, to the right of the track as seen from an approaching movement.
Tyler W. CN hog

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy