Train load info

[jep1267]

I normally read the model train forum but have a question that's more fitting here. I live in a condo that has a freight line that runs right past the complex. I was watching a show called I survived and one of the stories was about a train wreck in which the train was hauling Clorine of some sort. The wreck happened near a small development with only one road in accross that tracks. The wreck had caused a leak and the people that lived there couldn't get away from the resulting poisonous gas due to the road being blocked.

My condo complex is in the same situation with one road in and out accross the tracks. My question is, who can I get information from about what these trains are hauling past my complex? The trains are usually a mix of gondolas, box cars, and tank cars.

Thanks in advance

J.P.

 

[moelarrycurly4]

local emergency agencies would prob have this info, whether they would release it is another question.

[ericsp]

If it is hauling particularly nasty stuff, it will have the commodity on it.

If you are concerned about a possible chemical release, you can concentrate on looking for another escape route or finding a new place to live. However while the chances of such an event occuring are greater than zero, I am sure they are quite low.

[Namerifrats]

Like said above, if it's really bad it'll usually be printed on the side of the tank car. Anhydrous Ammonia, Chlorine, etc. Also the placards will give you an idea of whats in there.

[jep1267]

Good to know, thanks guys!

[ndbprr]

The diamond on the tank car with background colors and numbers is a universal code for emergency purposes.  One number tells how flammable it is, one number tells how hazrdous it is and I forget what the third number say's.  You should be able to find that on the internet somewhere as it is universal inclduing tank trucks.  The problem with chlorine is it creates hydrochloric acid in your lungs when you inhale it.  I worked in a chlorine plant and we were taught to run upstream of the air flow in the event of a leak.  If you run downwind all you do is run until you drop. Upwind you eventually get clear. probably what happened is the wind was blowing it across the road making it too dangerous.

[traisessive1]

The small number is the class of the commodity and the large number is the commodity itself. The symbol shows what kind of commodity it is.

Example: Anhydrous Ammonia

Class 2 (Small number), Gas (bottle symbol) and its UN number is 1005.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

For probably more than you'd ever want to know on the various placards and numbers, the "complete" source is the USDOT's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Saftey Administration - "PHMSA" - Emergency Response Guidebook 2008 - "ERG2008", which can be found at:

http://hazmat.dot.gov/pubs/erg/guidebook.htm

Caution: As you'll see when you get there, it's about 338 pages, and in "PDF" format about 2.5 MB = 2,550 KB in size !

For maybe more "fun" and usefulness with this, see the web page titled "Rosetta Stone for DOT Hazardous Material Placards" at:

 http://www.boingboing.net/2008/06/19/rosetta-stone-for-do.html

One of the "Comments posted there is this:

"#5 posted by c0nsumer , June 19, 2008 7:05 AM

A few years ago I took the 2004 set of this data and produced a set of iPod Notes files using this data. It allows one to easily drill down to a particular NA number and find out what a vehicle is carrying. I find this quite fun while sitting in traffic and wondering what various vehicles are carrying.

Those trucks with 1075 and the little silver cans? Propane or Butane. 1203 on a tanker? Gasoline.

If you'd like to check out the work, it's here: NA Numbers for iPod

Please know that this comes with the VERY IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER indicating that this is a UNOFFICIAL, DERIVATIVE COPY which SHOULD NOT BE RELIED ON FOR ANY REASON (except your own amusement and entertainment).

When I get some time (maybe this weekend or so) I'll redo the work for the 2008 data set."

Hope this is helpful, or at least informative.

- Paul North.

[CSXDixieLine]

J.P., This is probably the accident that you were referring to in your original post above:

Collision of Union Pacific Railroad Train MHOTU-23 With
BNSF Railway Company Train MEAP-TUL-126-D With Subsequent
Derailment and Hazardous Materials Release
Macdona, Texas
June 28, 2004

About 5:03 a.m., central daylight time, on Monday, June 28, 2004, a westbound Union Pacific Railroad (UP) freight train traveling on the same main line track as an eastbound BNSF Railway Company (BNSF) freight train struck the midpoint of the 123-car BNSF train as the eastbound train was leaving the main line to enter a parallel siding. The accident occurred at the west end of the rail siding at Macdona, Texas, on the UP's San Antonio Service Unit. The collision derailed the 4 locomotive units and the first 19 cars of the UP train as well as 17 cars of the BNSF train. As a result of the derailment and pileup of railcars, the 16th car of the UP train, a pressure tank car loaded with liquefied chlorine, was punctured. Chlorine escaping from the punctured car immediately vaporized into a cloud of chlorine gas that engulfed the accident area to a radius of at least 700 feet before drifting away from the site. Three persons, including the conductor of the UP train and two local residents, died as a result of chlorine gas inhalation. The UP train engineer, 23 civilians, and 6 emergency responders were treated for respiratory distress or other injuries related to the collision and derailment. Damages to rolling stock, track, and signal equipment were estimated at $5.7 million, with environmental cleanup costs estimated at $150,000.

If you click the link in the title above you will get to the full 74-page PDF document containing the official NTSB report. The Norfolk Southern crash in Graniteville, SC with the chlorine leak in 2005 also had similar results.

I often think about this as I am railfanning. I have learned from those two accident reports that a chlorine gas cloud will sink into the lowest areas, so seeking high ground seems like a good idea if you can't immediately get as far out of the danger zone as possible. There is usually hazradous materials on most manifest trains I see, but don't forget the same can be said about many of the trucks that drive past your home or business or right next to you on the freeway. Jamie

[CShaveRR]

J.P.,

If you tell us where you live (and perhaps which line you live along), someone may have a pretty good idea of what passes through there.

I wouldn't be as concerned about wrecks as I would about trains stopping and blocking your crossing--probably cutting you off from all emergency services.

[ericsp]

The diamond on the tank car with background colors and numbers is a universal code for emergency purposes.  One number tells how flammable it is, one number tells how hazrdous it is and I forget what the third number say's.  You should be able to find that on the internet somewhere as it is universal inclduing tank trucks.  The problem with chlorine is it creates hydrochloric acid in your lungs when you inhale it.  I worked in a chlorine plant and we were taught to run upstream of the air flow in the event of a leak.  If you run downwind all you do is run until you drop. Upwind you eventually get clear. probably what happened is the wind was blowing it across the road making it too dangerous.

I think you are refering to the NFPA 704 placard (health hazard, flammablility, reactivity, and special hazards). Those are not on tank cars.

[al-in-chgo]

Of course, there are all sorts of rules and regs. for handling hazmat substances, but is there any effort to keep combinations of hazmats away from each other?  If a tanker of anhydrous ammonia and a tanker of chlorine slammed together and both ruptured, IIRC that would make mustard gas and it could potentially kill thousands. 

 

 

[traisessive1]

There are marshalling requirements for trains to prevent having certain chemicals beside each other just as there are ones that say a shiftable load without a bulkhead or one that is above the ends of a gon cant be next to a dangerous commodity.

The ones about having shiftable loads next to dangerous cars are well adheard to.

Other ones, like the requirements to have shiftable loads within the first 2000 feet of the train are violated quite often. I can assure you that there are quite often times where there are chemicals besdie each other, that shouldnt be!

[al-in-chgo]

There are marshalling requirements for trains to prevent having certain chemicals beside each other just as there are ones that say a shiftable load without a bulkhead or one that is above the ends of a gon cant be next to a dangerous commodity.

The ones about having shiftable loads next to dangerous cars are well adheard to.

Other ones, like the requirements to have shiftable loads within the first 2000 feet of the train are violated quite often. I can assure you that there are quite often times where there are chemicals besdie each other, that shouldnt be!

Scary!!  But thanks for your answer, anyway.   - a. s.

 

[CShaveRR]

I don't think that chlorine and anhydrous ammonia are among the loads that are required to be separated from each other.

I should have more to say when I return from work, during which I hope to be able to drag out our hazmat instruction book.

[dehusman]

There are marshalling requirements for trains to prevent having certain chemicals beside each other just as there are ones that say a shiftable load without a bulkhead or one that is above the ends of a gon cant be next to a dangerous commodity.

Some of the major railroads have computer programs that alert yardmasters that they are building a train with a hazmat placement error or have programs that monitor train consists and if a train goes by a AEI reader with a placement error (of any kind, hazmat or train placement) it will notify the dispatch center to have them notify the crew for correction.

Other ones, like the requirements to have shiftable loads within the first 2000 feet of the train are violated quite often. I can assure you that there are quite often times where there are chemicals besdie each other, that shouldnt be!

Some of the restrictions, such as the one about shiftable loads in the first 200 ft of a train, aren't required in the US (unless the railroad itself requires it).  Basically toxic inhalation hazards, explosives and radioactive loads can't be next to other placarded cars.  Other than those three, it is permissible to mix placarded loads in a train (maintaining cover and other placement restrictions).

If you look at the deaths from hazmat rail accidents and look at the deaths from things like people being electricuted in their homes or having their natural gas line leak and explode, you will find that a death from a rail hazmat release is extremely rare.  Putting your car in "drive" makes you tens of thousands of times more likely to die than a train going by your house.

Dave H.

[jep1267]

Pasadena, Yup, that's the one.

Cshaver, Ok I'll give it a shot, I live in Pompton Lakes NJ. The line runs north east and crosses into Oakland just past my complex. I believe its the NY Susquahanna line, It says something to that affect on the side of the locos.

J.P.

[traisessive1]

CN often has their yardmasters under so much pressure, that when the computer finds an error the management say leave it or else. CN doesn't care about how their trains leave the yards. Just get them out and let it be dealt with at another terminal. I don't want the dwell time in my yard is the attitude.

 

[CShaveRR]

Dave, most varieties of hazmat placards are pictured in a large grouping in our instruction book, which means that they may be coupled together.  This includes flammable or non-flammable gases (anhydrous ammonia is one of the latter), poisons (chlorine, for one), corrosives, and many flammable liquids.  As you said, radioactive cars are in a group by themselves, and a lot of those placards with the white square background are in another group (I believe liquid ethylene is among these).

As for the positioning of shiftable loads, I looked at our rulebook (GCOR) and System Special Instructions, and could find nothing restricting them to within x number of feet of the front of the train.  Obviously, the Hazmat book has something to say about their placement next to certain tank cars.